A Case of Misattribution?

[Supe]

Chris George must be on vacation, else he would have leapt in with the first (and last word) on Fort McHenry. As it is, Tom was right that McHenry strikes a historical chord. It was the fort in Baltimore harbor that successfully withstood a British attack during the War of 1812 and that inspired Francis Scott Key to pen the poem "The Defense of Fort McHenry," the words to which became the lyrics of our national anthem.

[sleekviper]

That is backwards Tom. Woodrow Wilson said, “The white men were roused by a mere instinct of self preservation… until at last there had sprung into existence a great Ku Klux Klan, a veritable empire of the South, to protect the Southern country.”

McKinley said, "Our black allies must neither be forsaken nor deserted. I weigh my words. This is the great question not only of the present, but is the great question of the future; and this question will never be settled until it is settled upon principles of justice, recognizing the sanctity of the Constitution of the United States."
McKinley, in breaking precedent, named numerous African Americans to appointed offices, Wilson removed many.

[Tom_Wescott]

Fortuitous for whom? As for the street being empty, I would agree that was suspicious if not for the fact that the other witnesses around that time said the same thing - Mortimer and Brown.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Michael W Richards]

That's true, if the Schwartz chess piece is taken from the board, then the game changes. But Schwartz isn't a chess piece, and in spite of our best efforts, we have not found cause to remove him from the boards.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

No matter how sure I am personally about the validity of his story I cannot deny that I do not have the ammo to remove him. I can see a valid variation that may have occurred inside the passageway during that 15 minute interval though, but that story wouldnt place the killer offsite, he wouldnt likely have been a gentile inside the passage, and he wouldnt also be the most likely suspect in the investigation based on the timing.

The story is so fortuitous its almost miraculous from their (club admin) perspective.

Best regards,

Mike R

[Tom_Wescott]

That's true, if the Schwartz chess piece is taken from the board, then the game changes. But Schwartz isn't a chess piece, and in spite of our best efforts, we have not found cause to remove him from the boards.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Michael W Richards]

Just pointing out that if the story Israel gave was not legitimate then BSM and Pipeman and all that storyline simply disappear.

Which leaves a quiet night in front of the gates from 12:40 to 12:55 and Liz likely inside the yard, which changes the probable killer from someone attending the club or just passing by spotting her in the passageway.

Best regards,

Mike R

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Garry,

Your idea that Stride knew BS Man because she didn't scream loudly is not supported by the multiple accounts in the papers of LVP prostitutes, including some well-known ones to all of us, where the woman was attacked but didn't scream. Margaret Hames and Frances Coles' mate come immediately to mind. By contrast, Stride wasn't even punched, but merely pulled along and perhaps pushed. Had she known him, she would have been more likely to have acted out back, as fighting domestics typically did and do. With an angry stranger, however, you do as little to provoke him as you can.

And it's been demonstrated that BS Man was almost certainly not Michael Kidney, yet there are no other men in her life known to us who she would have openly allowed to have behaved this way, or who would have had cause to.

Then there's also the matter of location. Stride was tucked inside the dark gateway of the club yard and BS Man was merely walking by. SHE would have initiated the conversation with HIM. It's doubtful that either would have had a good look at each other until after the first words were spoken. The actions described by Schwartz are the clear actions of a woman soliciting.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Garry Wroe]

It seems quite likely by the cashous that Liz Stride was comfortable right up until the moment he grabs her, so the murder may have been a spontaneous act by her killer.

Agreed, Mike. The sequence of events described by Schwartz suggests to my mind that Stride knew her attacker and had no suspicion that she was in serious or imminent danger. The three quiet screams confirm this beyond any reasonable doubt. I therefore think it likely that she entered Dutfield’s Yard willingly in order to pacify Broad Shoulders and took the cachous from her pocket as a peace offering. At some point she did or said something that reignited Broad Shoulders’ anger and he made a grab for her neckerchief, pulled her to the ground, cut her throat, made the body less conspicuous by rolling it on to its left side, then immediately departed the crime scene.

Such a scenario does not in itself exclude the possibility that Broad Shoulders was a club member, but the cry of ‘Lipski!’ makes this unlikely in my view. On balance I consider it far more likely that Stride was killed by a jilted boyfriend, a fellow lodger or one of her pub acquaintances. Whoever he was, however, Stride knew him and didn’t consider him dangerous.

[Tom_Wescott]

McKinley. Yeah, that's the guy. He didn't do anything for the blacks, per se, so nobody remembers his name.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Michael W Richards]

It seems quite likely by the cashous that Liz Stride was comfortable right up until the moment he grabs her, so the murder may have been a spontaneous act by her killer.

He tries to pick her up, while in the yard or just outside the gates, she says "p*** off, Im not working, Im waiting for someone". Thug gets in front of her and pokes her in the chest while talking to her, she takes out some mints to essentially get the taste of his rotten breath out of her mouth, turns, starts walking out to the gates, he grabs her scarf and pulls back....all in a few seconds and in a momentary fit of rage.

Im thinking hired security guy or drunken BSM type, only maybe a Jewish BSM, inside the yard. I believe he was probably Jewish because I dont believe he left via the gates.

Best regards,

Mike R

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Lynn

This thread has now wandered SO off-topic...I'm sure Tom's itching to call me on it (and don't altogether blame him)...Erm any chance it's pronounced Kosminski?

Dave

[lynn cates]

pronunciation key

Hello Dave. Yup, and no other. I wonder if there is a pronunciation key?

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

But can you pronounce the anarchist's name? (heh-heh)

By heck Lynn I had to google that...and I see what you mean... "Leon Czolgosz"...what a mouthful!

Dave

[mariab]

Well, Mc Kinley I've heard of. Mc Henry nope, sad to say.

Well, guys, apologize for being so ordinary, but like Rob said, “I have to take a p*ss so bad“ (too much Génépi), the bar's WC aint' in working order, so I'm going home and gonna leave my laptop there. Will be back tomorrow evening from Berlin (that is, if I survive the trip back).

[lynn cates]

what's in a name

Hello Dave. Good. But can you pronounce the anarchist's name? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC