A Case of Misattribution?

[martin wilson]

Thanks Curious, if it was a kashket wiki informs me it was worn in Poland,Belarus and the Ukraine prior to the holocaust, by poor Hasidic jews, I thought it was an interesting possibility for a 'lower class Polish jew'
I cant find any evidence that William Marshall was jewish so my assumption is that he may have been unfamiliar with jewish dress and so described it as it appeared to him.
It may be significant because it is worn by the faithful which would rule out the man being a member of the club as jews had to renounce their faith to become a member.
All the best.

[Garry Wroe]

Tom,
like you said, the only argument that has some validity for Stride being a "non canonical" is the lack of postmortem mutilations.

I take it that you've not been following this thread, Maria.

There are these people who, against all evidence, insist that Stride must have been killed as early as 00.30 and therefore she cannot have been a "Ripper interruptus".

Who are 'these people'?

All kind of pseudo-evidence is used for this: Mortimer having allegedly spent an entire half hour "in front of" her doorstep, Kozebrodsky stating that Diemschitz called him out to the Yard at 00.40 a.m.. These are the misconceptions that need to be corrected.

No, you've not been following this thread.

But Berner Street continues to be so neglected as a sub-field of Ripperology, that people (and not necessarily newbies!) keep stating the Thomas Coram knife or take Matthew Packer's suspect for granted.

Then why don't you educate us, Maria? Your take on Diemschutz's 'poney' might make a good starting point.

[Garry Wroe]

how about intentionall embellishment ...

So far as I'm aware, Abby, there is not a shred of evidence to suggest that Swanson was prone to either exaggeration or mendacity.

or just misremembering?

He remembered Kosminski's name, the brother in Whitechapel and the mental instability.

[Hunter]

Hi Abby,
If you have a copy of the 'Ultimate' or 'Scotland Yard Investigates' you might want to check them out. They both have photocopies of Warren's letter and explanations about it.

[Abby Normal]

For my money, Colin, the possibility of there having been a star witness about whom we know nothing is negligible. It appears to be a straight choice between Lawende and Schwartz. Since Lawende readily admitted the unlikelihood that he would recognize Eddowes' companion, he would have been a hindrance rather than a help as a prosecution witness. Like it or not, therefore, Schwartz must have been the Seaside Home witness, and the assault he observed on Berner Street must have been been interpreted by investigators as part of the attack that resulted in Stride's death. I can see no alternative explanation for Swanson's certainty on the matter.

how about intentionall embellishment or just misremembering?

[Abby Normal]

If you have evidence to support the notion of Swanson having been Anderson's poodle, Abby, this would be the ideal thread on which to present it.

Well that would be impossible Garry, because Swanson was a man not a dog.

[Garry Wroe]

If the evidence of Anderson's witness "would have been sufficient, in itself, to secure a conviction", the witness could not have been Lawende or Schwartz. Either Swanson was exaggerating or there was another witness we don't know about.

For my money, Colin, the possibility of there having been a star witness about whom we know nothing is negligible. It appears to be a straight choice between Lawende and Schwartz. Since Lawende readily admitted the unlikelihood that he would recognize Eddowes' companion, he would have been a hindrance rather than a help as a prosecution witness. Like it or not, therefore, Schwartz must have been the Seaside Home witness, and the assault he observed on Berner Street must have been been interpreted by investigators as part of the attack that resulted in Stride's death. I can see no alternative explanation for Swanson's certainty on the matter.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby.
I thought that quote was attributed to Charles Warren?
"Ultimate", p.110.




Wasn't it Anderson who wrote in October 1888, about there being "five successive murders", in which the police are "not having the slightest clue of any kind".?

Either Anderson's "suspect" surfaced after Kelly's murder, or years later.
Given what we know of how divided the police were after the Kelly murder, this suspect doesn't appear to have surfaced subsequent to those investigations, so when?
The further away we get the less likely this suspect was responsible for the Whitechapel murders.

Jon S.

Hi Wicker
I beleive Warren may have approived it but it was written by Anderson.

Either Anderson's "suspect" surfaced after Kelly's murder, or years later.
Given what we know of how divided the police were after the Kelly murder, this suspect doesn't appear to have surfaced subsequent to those investigations, so when?
The further away we get the less likely this suspect was responsible for the Whitechapel murders.

Kos didnt surface until 1890 as a possible suspect-so I agree with you totally.

[Garry Wroe]

And no Garry its not anti-anderson rhetoric. The whole basis of your theory hinges on the credibility/accuracy of those making the statements. I think its clear we need to keep that in mind when we assess what Anderson and his loyal follower Swanson say about it.

If you have evidence to support the notion of Swanson having been Anderson's poodle, Abby, this would be the ideal thread on which to present it.

[Garry Wroe]

This is precisely what I sense whenever I see anyone still arguing that Stride was not a Ripper victim "based on the evidence."

You've had fifty pages in which to challenge 'the evidence', Tom, but have offered nothing in the way of rebuttal. I would encourage you to do so, if only to avail those unfamiliar with your arguments with a more balanced view of the Stride murder.

[Abby Normal]

I'm afraid this memo was from Warren, dated Sept. 15, placing Swanson in charge of the case. Anderson had left on the 8th (the day of Chapman's murder) for his vacation.

No it was written by Anderson. I believe Warren signed off on it (approved it) though.

[curious]

I'm confused now,under Hasidic Judaism on wiki it is definitely spelt kashket and it is described as a peaked cap, its also called a dakishi but they dont have a page for that.
We have two witnesses who saw someone in a peaked cap, why could it not be a kashket like my wiki page says?
All the best.

Hi, Martin,
I googled your kashket and found an image that immediately reminded me of a Greek sailor's cap, which I also googled.

To me, there is a definite similarity.

Interesting thought, Martin.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Martin

So if we're in such difficulty over a so-called simply defined "peaked cap", then in all honesty what chance is there the rest of the description's accurate?

All the best

Dave

[martin wilson]

Having said that googling kasket as an image gives you allsorts, flat caps, peaked caps which I would usually associate with jewish dress,military caps and Ruby's baseball caps
It seems hard to define kasket as one thing,maybe a generic reference to any cap that has a peak.
All the best.

[martin wilson]

I'm confused now,under Hasidic Judaism on wiki it is definitely spelt kashket and it is described as a peaked cap, its also called a dakishi but they dont have a page for that.
We have two witnesses who saw someone in a peaked cap, why could it not be a kashket like my wiki page says?
All the best.