A Case of Misattribution?

[Michael W Richards]

Hello all,

There is sufficient evidence to question why Stride should be a Canonical without relying solely on the lack of mutilations. Her demeanor in death, her loitering near the Mens club for some time without leaving with a man, and a single cut that did not sever both arteries completely allowing for a slower death than the previous women are a few others.

It is abundantly clear that the man that killed both Polly and Annie did so in order to facilitate mutilating them. It would still be clear if 2 separate men did the acts, but the specific nature of those 2 murders sets them apart from any previous stabbing frenzies or later de-engineering, so its highly probable that the first 2 Canonicals were killed by one man with a purpose.

His motive wasnt simply murder....the first step was. And Liz is a one step woman.

Bets regards,

Mike R

[Stephen Thomas]

Does misattribution make you go blind?

[Hunter]

Hi Wicker

From Anderson(memo recommending Swanson to be put in charge):

"I am convinced the the Whitechapel murder case is one which can be successfully grappled with if it is sytematically taken in hand. I go so far as to say that I could myself in a few days unravel the mystery provided I could spare the time and give undivided attention to it."

Seems like his hyperbole was also present before-the-fact!

I'm afraid this memo was from Warren, dated Sept. 15, placing Swanson in charge of the case. Anderson had left on the 8th (the day of Chapman's murder) for his vacation.

[Wickerman]

Hi Wicker

From Anderson(memo recommending Swanson to be put in charge):

"I am convinced the the Whitechapel murder case is one which can be successfully grappled with if it is sytematically taken in hand. I go so far as to say that I could myself in a few days unravel the mystery provided I could spare the time and give undivided attention to it."

Hi Abby.
I thought that quote was attributed to Charles Warren?
"Ultimate", p.110.

And no Garry its not anti-anderson rhetoric. The whole basis of your theory hinges on the credibility/accuracy of those making the statements. I think its clear we need to keep that in mind when we assess what Anderson and his loyal follower Swanson say about it.

Wasn't it Anderson who wrote in October 1888, about there being "five successive murders", in which the police are "not having the slightest clue of any kind".?

Either Anderson's "suspect" surfaced after Kelly's murder, or years later.
Given what we know of how divided the police were after the Kelly murder, this suspect doesn't appear to have surfaced subsequent to those investigations, so when?
The further away we get the less likely this suspect was responsible for the Whitechapel murders.

Jon S.

[Bridewell]

Neither

Swanson stated that the evidence of Anderson’s witness would have been sufficient in itself to secure a conviction. This alone tells us that the witness was privy to more than a mere sighting. In order for Swanson’s observation to hold true, the witness must have seen an actual attack in progress. Thus the witness could not have been Lawende. It must have been Schwartz.

If the evidence of Anderson's witness "would have been sufficient, in itself, to secure a conviction", the witness could not have been Lawende or Schwartz. Either Swanson was exaggerating or there was another witness we don't know about.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Cogidubnus]

We have corroboration on two hats,William Marshall and Israel Schwartz both saw someone with a peaked cap. Marshall said "like a sailors" Schwartz nothing I found on a quick look.
Well,it could have been a sailors,or it could have been a kashket, a cap I am reliably informed by wiki of the type worn by poorer Hasidic jews.
Now if Scwartz knew the type of hat but said nowt,does it strengthen the case for him being Andersons witness?

Hi Martin...elementary test...try googling "peaked cap", and you get something with a raised and stiffened peak at the front like a military cap...try googlig kasket (which I think is what you mean) and you get something more akin to the british cloth cap...not that similar I'm afraid.

All the best

Dave

[Rubyretro]

une casquette is a peaked cap in french (baseball or andycap type) hope this helps.

[Tom_Wescott]

Project Turdburger

There is sufficient evidence to question why Stride should be a Canonical without relying solely on the lack of mutilations. Her demeanor in death, her loitering near the Mens club for some time without leaving with a man, and a single cut that did not sever both arteries completely allowing for a slower death than the previous women are a few others.

It is abundantly clear that the man that killed both Polly and Annie did so in order to facilitate mutilating them. It would still be clear if 2 separate men did the acts, but the specific nature of those 2 murders sets them apart from any previous stabbing frenzies or later de-engineering, so its highly probable that the first 2 Canonicals were killed by one man with a purpose.

Of course, this completely supports my argument that rational cases for dismissing Stride, based on contemporary evidence and not the above nonsense, or geo profiling voodoo, or interpretations of the attending doctors' times of death, simply do not exist now that research has removed all of the ORIGINAL reasons for dismissing Stride. It comes down to mutilation...Is it more likely that the Ripper - for whatever reason - didn't mutilate Stride, or that two throat-slitters killed prostitutes on the streets of London at roughly the same time? Both scenarios are possible, that I will not argue, but one is more likely than the other.

Having said that, I suppose it's nice that there's at least one thing that the two opposing Cabals as well as the fringe element can agree on. Glad I'm not in that mix.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Either Swanson was exaggerating or there was another witness we don't know about.

Which do you think is most likely the case?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[martin wilson]

I'm confused now,under Hasidic Judaism on wiki it is definitely spelt kashket and it is described as a peaked cap, its also called a dakishi but they dont have a page for that.
We have two witnesses who saw someone in a peaked cap, why could it not be a kashket like my wiki page says?
All the best.

[martin wilson]

Having said that googling kasket as an image gives you allsorts, flat caps, peaked caps which I would usually associate with jewish dress,military caps and Ruby's baseball caps
It seems hard to define kasket as one thing,maybe a generic reference to any cap that has a peak.
All the best.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Martin

So if we're in such difficulty over a so-called simply defined "peaked cap", then in all honesty what chance is there the rest of the description's accurate?

All the best

Dave

[curious]

I'm confused now,under Hasidic Judaism on wiki it is definitely spelt kashket and it is described as a peaked cap, its also called a dakishi but they dont have a page for that.
We have two witnesses who saw someone in a peaked cap, why could it not be a kashket like my wiki page says?
All the best.

Hi, Martin,
I googled your kashket and found an image that immediately reminded me of a Greek sailor's cap, which I also googled.

To me, there is a definite similarity.

Interesting thought, Martin.

[Abby Normal]

I'm afraid this memo was from Warren, dated Sept. 15, placing Swanson in charge of the case. Anderson had left on the 8th (the day of Chapman's murder) for his vacation.

No it was written by Anderson. I believe Warren signed off on it (approved it) though.

[Garry Wroe]

This is precisely what I sense whenever I see anyone still arguing that Stride was not a Ripper victim "based on the evidence."

You've had fifty pages in which to challenge 'the evidence', Tom, but have offered nothing in the way of rebuttal. I would encourage you to do so, if only to avail those unfamiliar with your arguments with a more balanced view of the Stride murder.