discussion of Aaron Kosminski's psychological profile

[Pontius2000]

[QUOTE=Abby Normal;155821]

Basically, How could someone with severe mental illness a few years after the murders that include eating out of garbage, guided by voices, not being capable of work, etc, etc and to the point of being incarcerated in an asylum have been "normal" in appearance and behaviour enough to convince/manipulate/make feel at ease street smart prostitutes into accompanying him into dark secluded areas for the pretense of sex at the height of the whitechapel murders when certainly any small indicator of a potential punter being strange or different would have sent said prostitutes screaming in his opposite direction?


Anyone?

there are periods, like in the example of Bipolar Disorder (as well as other disorders), where the sufferer appears completely normal and is functional, or can 'hide' their disorder and appear normal and functional. Then, periods of mania. He would not have been in a state of constant mania, just as he was not in a state of contant mania after being put in the asylum.

[jason_c]

[QUOTE=Abby Normal;155821]

Hi jason
thanks for the response.

It would be interesting what the folks who are more knowledgable in mental disorders can say about this:

Basically, How could someone with severe mental illness a few years after the murders that include eating out of garbage, guided by voices, not being capable of work, etc, etc and to the point of being incarcerated in an asylum have been "normal" in appearance and behaviour enough to convince/manipulate/make feel at ease street smart prostitutes into accompanying him into dark secluded areas for the pretense of sex at the height of the whitechapel murders when certainly any small indicator of a potential punter being strange or different would have sent said prostitutes screaming in his opposite direction?


Anyone?

A punter with money breaks down many inhibitions in a drunken street prostitute.

[Abby Normal]

[QUOTE=jason_c;155784]

I agree the question is important.

His dog muzzling appearance at court suggests he was looking and acting normally at the time, or he could function during certain periods. No mention is made of any odd behaviour witnessed by the P.C. involved. Also, no mention of an interpretor needed either.

Hi jason
thanks for the response.

It would be interesting what the folks who are more knowledgable in mental disorders can say about this:

Basically, How could someone with severe mental illness a few years after the murders that include eating out of garbage, guided by voices, not being capable of work, etc, etc and to the point of being incarcerated in an asylum have been "normal" in appearance and behaviour enough to convince/manipulate/make feel at ease street smart prostitutes into accompanying him into dark secluded areas for the pretense of sex at the height of the whitechapel murders when certainly any small indicator of a potential punter being strange or different would have sent said prostitutes screaming in his opposite direction?


Anyone?

[Chris]

Right and wrong. Not to mention, wrong assumptions.

Wrong.

[Marlowe]

Right and wrong. Not to mention, wrong assumptions.

[Chris]

Ahh I see. You are proposing ergot poisoning. I admit I do not know much about this. But I think you would have to show that the effects of ergot poisoning would persist for decades, which seems somewhat unlikely to me.

Also, ergot affects grain in the field before it's harvested, so there's no reason to think bread in a London gutter would be contaminated by it.

[jason_c]

[QUOTE=Abby Normal;155763]

He seems to have looked and acted fairly normally in 1889.[/QUOT

Hi Jason
Thanks for the response.
But my original question about his appearance, physically and behaviorily, in the fall of 1988 during the murders is what I think is most important.

I think this is crucial. And I keep asking because:

Basically, How could someone with severe mental illness a few years after the murders that include eating out of garbage, guided by voices, not being capable of work, etc, etc and to the point of being incarcerated in an asylum have been "normal" in appearance and behaviour enough to convince/manipulate/make feel at ease street smart prostitutes into accompanying him into dark secluded areas for the pretense of sex at the height of the whitechapel murders when certainly any small indicator of a potential punter being strange or different would have sent said prostitutes screaming in his opposite direction?

I agree the question is important.

His dog muzzling appearance at court suggests he was looking and acting normally at the time, or he could function during certain periods. No mention is made of any odd behaviour witnessed by the P.C. involved. Also, no mention of an interpretor needed either.

[Pontius2000]

I had never heard of the death by gangrene outcome on Kosminski. I looked at the notes leading up to his death and instantly said, "dysentery". so, not knowing if there is some relation between gangrene and dysentery, I checked.

oddly enough, here is a case of dysentery followed by gangrene of the leg resulting in death: http://www.springerlink.com/content/f675np0q271340tn/

This is from Ireland 1887. very interesting. would be interesting to know if dysentery is also related to ergot poisoning, or if the gangrene was simply a result of the dysentery. And for that matter, it would be interesting to know if the woman in the linked article had ergot poisoning.

[Marlowe]

Corey,

Thanks...

Pontius,

if your name was Nicole, I would probably hang around...thanks again

[corey123]

Hello Marlowe,

Hey, I have been proven wrong. I suppose I made a wrong supposition

You weren't nasty one bit, my apologies sir.

Hello Pontius,

Don't worry, you are way overqualified compared to me, a 17 year old student. I am neither a psychologists nor a medicle professional, rather a fast food worker.

Good thread. Keep it going, ripperology needs threads like this.

[Pontius2000]

Pontius,

you're way off on the bread part...but otherwise, thanks.

If I am, then please explain. He was 'told' not to accept food from others and eat bread from the gutters. so you're suggesting that the hallucinations told him to seek out poisoned bread? explain where I'm way off.

as for the death by gangrene, I believe it was brought on following dysentery. Let me point out though that I'M NOT A MEDICAL DOCTOR, lest "get real" climb back on her pedestal and inform me that I'm not qualified to make an educated guess on an internet forum.

[Marlowe]

Rob,

Thanks for answering my questions.

Well, you will have to wait for MY book, I'm afraid :-))

Corey,

when I wrote LSD-like hallucinations, that is what I meant. But it's cool, I not going to get "nasty" about it...lol

Pontius,

you're way off on the bread part...but otherwise, thanks.

Ok, Good night guys,

Marlowe

[Pontius2000]

the ergot poisoning is interesting, but I agree with Rob.

1. what is the longlasting effect of ergot poisoning? I don't think that he would have been continued to be poisoned after being put in the asylum. do the symptoms continue decades after the poisoning?

2. if he had ergot poisoning, would it not be expected that his family members would also have been poisoned considering he was unemployed and they were his providers?

3. are the hallucinations caused by ergot poisoning the same as hallucinations caused by pyschotic episodes in mood affective disorders? This part, I seriously doubt. I don't know much about it, but I would imagine ergot induced hallucinations would be more similar to hallucinations caused by narcotics.

you are suggesting that the hallucinations TOLD Kosminski to actively seek out poisoned bread from the gutters? This, I find a little far fetched. how would the hallucinations know what was causing the hallucinations?

But it is an interesting, well thought out theory.

[robhouse]

Ahh I see. You are proposing ergot poisoning. I admit I do not know much about this. But I think you would have to show that the effects of ergot poisoning would persist for decades, which seems somewhat unlikely to me.

RH

[robhouse]

Yes, both of those are true according to what is known.

His death certificate gives the cause of death as “gangrene of the leg."

And as the informant Jacob Cohen told Dr Houchin:

"he goes about the streets and picks up bits of bread out of the gutter & eats them, he drinks water from the tap & he refuses food at the hands of others."

Booth incidentally noted "Great mess in Jewish streets. Fishes heads, paper of all colors, bread (not a great deal of this)—orange peel in abundance."

Why do you ask? Are you theorizing that Kozminski had some sort of poisoning instead of being schizophrenic?

RH