discussion of Aaron Kosminski's psychological profile

[GregBaron]

Further speculations...

Thanks for the information you all and especially Errata for your take on mental illnesses. I certainly wish you the best if you have ever suffered from any of these afflictions...

Again I'm prone to speculation and off-threading so please forgive me in advance for these offenses.

Let's assume for arguments sake that Koz is the ripper. It makes one very curious what his living quarters may have looked like and what degree of privacy he had. It seems highly unlikely to me that he could be coming in at all hours and on murder nights with blood, knives and possible organs without arousing family suspicion. Perhaps his sister threatened him with exposure and this is when he picked up the knife. And as far as knives go, I know there were butchers around and it couldn't have been that hard to acquire a knife but it made me wonder about tailors. Did tailors use knives and if so, what kind? Could Koz have really cleaned up without any of his sisters or brothers in law knowing? Did he still sleep in the same room with his sister? We know everyone lived in crowded conditions. A family cover up certainly seems plausible. Any information we have on living arrangements on Sion etc... would seem of great importance.

I'm interested in hearing more about the Batty street theories. Maybe Koz always sent his bloody clothes out for laundering?

Again, I'm prone to wild speculation but this is what I find most fun....




Greg

[JtRMordke]

Wow - amazing how much information you have managed to pull out Rob! These anglicised name changes become quite confusing, and especially since accuracy on documents of this time was generally not that great. I must congratulate your work immensely and the benefit this has been to the Ripper community. And regarding your recent post, I do remember reading something about that too - one of them with the name Kozminski, the other Abrahams I believe. A possible explanation was that Golda could have changed the surname on the death certificate to distance the family away from Kozminski because he was put on the suspect list.

Back to Kozminski - Saying he was the Ripper again, I am wondering about the sorts of fantasies he would have had, assumingly about his sisters and women in general and the possible trigger for them. Obviously if what happened in the Pale is true to his village and he did witness the rape of a family member, and maybe even the possible period incident you touched on when he was little in your report Rob, the early association with blood/violence and sex combined with the schizophrenia and/or other mental health problems would have left a very clear indication of how his twisted view on women had occurred. I am also, just as a matter of interest, curious about how he viewed women in terms of a possible partner, if at all. The fact that he never married has intrigued me. Was it because his religion prohibited it (since I read something about mentally ill Jewish men not being allowed to marry), or was it because of his documented hatred or disturbed views on women in general?

[JtRMordke]

And to what you were saying Greg... That appears to be an interesting spin on the knife threatening incident. Like you said, the possibility of Kozminski having access to a knife at the time of his defence is possible, but unlikely, unless his carried a knife on him all the time or he just happened to have one right next to him at the time. Again, since it is retold by Jacob Cohen who appears to be Woolf’s business partner, was it possible that he witnessed the events? This is another point of speculation, but I agree, that is what makes this interesting.

To the Batty Street lodger, it appears that the Kozminskis (Abrahams) had their clothes washed for them by the German lady if this referral to them is correct, and that they might have been regular customers. We know that they weren’t doing badly and may have been a slightly well off Tailoring family compared to the rest of Whitechapel so could have afforded this. Either the one bloody shirt was accidently put in the wrong wash pile (if the family knew about it then maybe they washed just his shirts themselves to cover it up?), more bloody shirts were deposited than were reported, or Aaron only used one or two shirts for the whole of a few months.

[Chris]

The assumption is as follows:

Abram Kozminski's brother was Moziek Hersz Kozminski
Moziek's son was Kazryel Szlama Kozminski (this would be Woolf's first cousin)
Brucha Kozminski was Kazryel Szlama's daughter.

I think the confusion came from Kazryel's wife being listed as Pessa Lux on one document, and Ryfka on Brucha's birth certificate. So either he married twice, or Pessa and Ryfka are the same person, or there are two different Kazryel Szlama Kozminskis.

Yes, there's something funny about those entries, though I'm inclined to think there can be only one Kazryel Szlama Kozminski, particularly as the age and the occupation are the same.

I think it's a bit more doubtful whether Kazryel's father Mosiek was the same person as Woolf's uncle Mosiek. The ages are roughly the same, but it really needs the marriage entry to clinch it. I've had searches made in the registers of both Klodawa and Kolo, but unfortunately it wasn't found.

[Errata]

Back to Kozminski - Saying he was the Ripper again, I am wondering about the sorts of fantasies he would have had, assumingly about his sisters and women in general and the possible trigger for them. Obviously if what happened in the Pale is true to his village and he did witness the rape of a family member, and maybe even the possible period incident you touched on when he was little in your report Rob, the early association with blood/violence and sex combined with the schizophrenia and/or other mental health problems would have left a very clear indication of how his twisted view on women had occurred. I am also, just as a matter of interest, curious about how he viewed women in terms of a possible partner, if at all. The fact that he never married has intrigued me. Was it because his religion prohibited it (since I read something about mentally ill Jewish men not being allowed to marry), or was it because of his documented hatred or disturbed views on women in general?

I think that a couple things need to be cleared up here. Firstly, there is no restriction in Judaism on the mentally ill being able to marry. Judaism has long considered mental illness as just that. An illness. Since the B.C.s. However Judaism has long recognized the genetic component. It is not that the mentally ill are forbidden to marry, but that they are unlikely to find a partner. However because the genetic component has been recognized for centuries, mental illness was typically kept quiet so that the siblings could have an easier time finding a spouse.

Secondly, given the peculiar scope of his delusions, I think it may be unfair to say he had a hatred for women. Personally, I think they freaked him out. His entire mythology was based on cleanliness, purification on a religious level. Women are unclean when they are menstruating for a week, they are unclean after sex, and a few other random situations. But menstruation and sex must have been terrifying to him. An unclean woman cannot touch a clean man. It renders him unclean. And everything else she touches. He had no way of knowing, ever, whether the women who walked past him on the street, or sold him things, bumped into him, whatever were clean or unclean. And given his fanaticism, I am surprised he didnt decide to live in a cave somewhere. I would be fascinated to know how his delusions altered to allow him to still live in a huge crowded city. But from what I have read, this may have been the root of his inability to properly socialize with women. It doesn't mean hatred or violence, but it does indicate absolute terror.

Ironically, if these were a part of the delusions, logic would indicate that it would rule him out as Jack the Ripper. Not that he couldn't kill, anyone can kill. But human blood, the dead, and especially human organs are incredibly unclean. Just a thought.

I find it hard to believe that his family would allow him to be Jack the Ripper. In my mind, no family is going to have Jack the Ripper sleeping down the hall from them, but stranger things happen. There would be no cultural prohibition to handing him over the cops, but there may have been some personal reason I imagine. But even if the family chose not to turn him in for some reason, they would have neutralized him. Nobody understood delusions back then. They didn't understand that schizophrenia has its own rules and logic. They had no way of knowing that they would be safe from him. If they didn't turn him in to the cops they would have put him in an asylum, or turned him in for another crime, sent him overseas, or even killed him. But I cannot see a situation in which they could know, and do nothing.

[JtRMordke]

Thank you for that input Errata.
I cannot remember where it was that I read that statement, but it was something that a member had picked up on either here or on JTRForums, so the origin to that assumption was not mine. Secondly, I agree with you that it is unfair to say that he had a great hatred of women also, as it states in the police reports. I think your situation with women being unclean is a very strong point to make as well (and one which I was just reminded of), and it would make a lot of sense if this was the case. Of course there is the issue that contradicts this theory that if Kozminski was the Ripper and so afraid of this aspect of women, why would he even think of totally associating himself with blood by hacking them apart? That is one of the reasons why I brought the subject up, because for me this is a rather grey area.

And his family did eventually insist they put him in an asylum, although the delay for this is unclear if we consider him as Jack the Ripper. I know my own family would certainly turn me in if I did anything close to what the Ripper did, but you never know what his family would have done as everyone is different.

[Jeff Leahy]

Please remember that schizophrenia is a cyclicure illness. Often starting in late teens early twenties. It takes the suffer in periods refered to as 'Psychotic' episode....typically lasting 16-18 weeks in period. With periods of recovery between attacks (that is if not treated). Modern suffers can and are treated. It does appear to be chemical imbalance..although a hereditary aspect has been noted. Statistics are far from clear and vary internationally.

Dr Lars Davidson (UK expert) recently gave his opinion that Aaron was suffering Hebophrenic Schizophrenia. Although he caveated his opinion that Schizophenic's are no more likely than other members of society to commit violent crime and he thought Aaron unlikely to be the Ripper based on that.

Aaron's psychological records are limited. Most of what is known is about his physical health and for an accurate accessment a psychologist would require a one on one accessment. What can be stated is therefore limited. Case study, as RH has recognised, being the best way of accessing whether or not AK may or May not have been the Ripper.

Pirate

[JtRMordke]

Thank you for reminding me Pirate! I cannot believe I forgot that aspect of the illness in discussion. I think it was stated that one of his schizophrenia attacks was in 1888, which calls for interesting referencing. That would also help to explain his late incarnation! And thanks for that - I shall take the time to look up Hebophrenic Schizophrenia for future reading. As I've stated before, my knowledge on this illness is rather limited. Thinking back, I remember hearing about that in the channel 5 documentary on the end section on Aaron.

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi JtRM

Yes I've always thought the psychotic cycle interesting. Could this be a first attack?

And why March 1889 for a possible incarseration?

Matches the cycle. Curious.

However we must be careful what we draw from schizophrenia...its still largely unknown...some experts demanding the name is changed to a syndrome.

And so little known about Araon's condition apart from his physical health.

I think RH conclusion that comparable case study is the best way of trying to understand...the best

Many thanks PJ

[JtRMordke]

Hello Pirate.

From what I read, he had had at least one other schizophrenia attack before 1888, however at this moment in time, I fail to remember this date. And yes, that is very interesting that the cycle fits when he was admitted to the asylum. Looking at people with similar cases and putting these against Aaron is possibly the only way to investigate this further. Unfortunately almost all the evidence for Jack the Ripper and other aspects of the time are extremely limiting as cross referencing information was made extremely tedious and difficult without the aid of a computer. Therefore they were limited to how many notes they could take on a person. I also understand that schizophrenia was something diagnosed quite late and what we know of the illness now was far more than they could possibly have known in Victorian times. It would have been helpful to have known more specific details on what forms of delusions these took, but of course, any knowledge of this died along with the people who possessed it.

[robhouse]

A couple quick points.

Greg: I have recently been speculating as to whether the workshop behind Isaac's house was the place where Aaron might have slept, and it also may have been a place where he could get rid of bloodstains undisturbed.

JTRmordke - the family changed their name to Abrahams on arrival in London, many years before the murders.

Also, you wrote:
"Obviously if what happened in the Pale is true to his village and he did witness the rape of a family member, and maybe even the possible period incident you touched on when he was little in your report Rob, the early association with blood/violence and sex combined with the schizophrenia and/or other mental health problems would have left a very clear indication of how his twisted view on women had occurred. "

This comes from my earlier (2004?) article in Ripperologist. Unfortunately, I was apparently wrong here, since the western part of the Pale where the Kozminskis lived did not have any pograms to speak of... at least not that I have discovered. The part about witnessing menstrual blood etc. was utter and rather reckless speculation on my part. I wish I had never written it.

My basic thesis is that the intolerant and rather brutal anti-semitic environments Kozminski experienced in Russia, and later in the East End would have left him generally resentful of society and authority figures, and that "victim turned victimizer" type fantasies might have arisen from such treatment. Being unfairly blamed and scapegoated etc. It is more in depth than this, but that is it in a nutshell.

Errata - I do not think I would agree that Kozminski's delusional views were centered on cleanliness and purification. To be blunt, I think it impossible to state with any certainty exactly what they were all about, although general paranoia seems a likely factor. I do not think that his psychosis would have prevented his being a killer, but I also assume that other psychological factors may have played a larger role in motivating him to kill (if indeed he was the ripper.)

Jeff - I honestly don't understand how or why Dr. Davidson came to the conclusion of Hebephrenic schizophrenia as opposed to other types of the disorder. Also, I do not see the point in saying that schizophrenics are "no more likely than other members of society to commit violent crime." First of all, this does not mean they are less likely either. Secondly, most recent research would dispute this claim. The most interesting study I have seen showed an increase in the incidence of violence committed by schizophrenics who also had co-morbid psychopathic traits. To me this suggests that the true motivation for the violent or homicidal tendencies would lie in the psychopathy, and the schizophrenia may just confuse matters... but not necessarily motivate violence. In MOST cases... there are some cases where violence is indeed related to positive psychotic symptoms like command hallucinations. But even in these cases, it may be that the command hallucinations are linked to underlying psychological factors... such as resentment, feelings of victimization, hatred of women or people in general, etc.

It is really not a simple question. I do not know of any study that looks specifically at schizophrenic serial killers. There might be one, but I do not know of it. But many of the assumptions about how a schizophrenic serial could would act are probably (in my opinion) a bit off the mark.

RH

[JtRMordke]

Okay, thank you for that Rob! ^^
A lot of what I know of Kozminski comes from your articles so thank you for updating me on recent changes to the information! The detail I found in them was of wonderful content and ultimately made me swing to suspecting Aaron of being the Ripper. Also, your theory on widespread anti-Semitism being essential to the murders makes the message on Goulston Street (if this was written by the Ripper) highly understandable and makes much more sense now.

[Errata]

Errata - I do not think I would agree that Kozminski's delusional views were centered on cleanliness and purification. To be blunt, I think it impossible to state with any certainty exactly what they were all about, although general paranoia seems a likely factor. I do not think that his psychosis would have prevented his being a killer, but I also assume that other psychological factors may have played a larger role in motivating him to kill (if indeed he was the ripper.)

Well, I have no idea what his delusions entailed either. Perhaps it would have been better to say his behaviors, but even that is open to interpretation. I had read that he ate out of the garbage because he would not take food from human hands (although damned if I can find that again, it might have been on his intake) and that's where my brain went. I would have to disagree on general paranoia. I think it would actually have to be pretty specific, given that general paranoia leads to barricading yourself inside a house.

Truly any schizoid delusions can rule out someone being a specific killer. It just depends on what their delusions are, and what the rules are for that particular reality. And in the case of Kosminski or Jack the Ripper we will never know. But someone with any kind of biblical oriented delusion would not have committed these murders. Other murders sure, but not these. These murders violate too many of the rules common to people with religious delusion. I would say cleanliness oriented delusions would also be out, I can think of a few others. Alien invader delusions are totally in. If you think that there are aliens running around in people suits, this kind of mutilation would be consistent.

My fiance (the psychologist) rightly pointed out to me that a schizophrenics delusions are only applicable if they are either intuitive or counter intuitive to the crime. If committing this crime violates their delusions, they can't do it. If it is consistent, they can. But a majority of schizophrenics don't have delusions that would sway them one way or the other. Because without being in remission or adopting a new delusion, and because schizophrenics NEVER drop character, it is as easy to assume they are who or what they say they are. If a schizophrenic says he's a time traveler, he might as well actually be one. Now if a guy says he's Jesus, then clearly he cannot murder and mutilate prostitutes. Anymore than the real Jesus could (without a very noticeable paradigm shift, and probably some very alarming street corner preaching beforehand). If he says he is the devil, well that could be motive. But if he thinks he's a time traveler, or a doctor, or the real heir to the throne, etc. none of those delusions preclude or exclude someone from being a serial killer. However, in such cases the schizophrenia would not be the motivating factor. It isn't that they would be a violent schizophrenic, they would be a schizophrenic who is violent.

Which is really the only reason I started speculation on the delusions at all. While you can never say with certainty that certain delusions prevent certain crimes, you CAN say that 99% of the time that is true. And I may have sounded like I thought I knew what his delusions were, I was just speculating based on bits and pieces.

Also, it still constantly surprises me at how afraid people are of those with a mental illness. I have been diagnosed Bipolar since I was 8, so unlike most people with conditions that usually develop later on in life I have never been on the other side of the issue. And schizophrenics get the worst of it. Every schizophrenic I have ever known has lived in fear and intense pain. They know people are terrified of them because they assume that delusional means dangerous. They know they aren't okay, and they live in fear of the delusions taking over again, and they live in fear of coming out of the delusions because they don't want to face what they have done, and they know with absolute certainty that their brain will betray them again. All the mentally ill live with that. The suicide rates are quite high, and you would be astonished at how many of them take their lives while in remission, when they are lucid and normal. Because they don't want to go back. Or come out of it.

So it's probably not surprising that I spring to the defense of schizophrenics, whether they are actually being maligned or not. I was once in a bad car accident and woke up in the hospital in restraints. Not because I had done anything, but because they saw in my chart I was bipolar. They let me out, but they told me if I had been a schizophrenic, they would not have let me out, and they would have had a mouth piece in to prevent me from biting. Can you imagine? So when people talk about violent schizophrenics, which admittedly there are, I feel like I have to mitigate the fear that schizophrenics are dangerous. So I apologize if it seemed I was leaping down your throat on that. It is something I am passionate enough about I don't always consider if any actual harm is being done. It's a failing of mine.

[Jeff Leahy]

Jeff - I honestly don't understand how or why Dr. Davidson came to the conclusion of Hebephrenic schizophrenia as opposed to other types of the disorder. .

Dr lars was provided with Aaron's case notes and reached his diagnosis independently. Not all his conclusions agreed with my other expert.

However Hebephrenic Schizophrenia is usually considered the most potencially dangerous form of the illness. http://www.schizophrenic.com/content...-schizophrenia

Also, I do not see the point in saying that schizophrenics are "no more likely than other members of society to commit violent crime." First of all, this does not mean they are less likely either.

Yes I beleive that is what Dr Davidson is saying. The phraze is clearly worded to prevent the unnecessary demonizing of people who suffer the condition.

Most crime is committed by normally balanced human beings.

Secondly, most recent research would dispute this claim. The most interesting study I have seen showed an increase in the incidence of violence committed by schizophrenics who also had co-morbid psychopathic traits. To me this suggests that the true motivation for the violent or homicidal tendencies would lie in the psychopathy, and the schizophrenia may just confuse matters... but not necessarily motivate violence. In MOST cases... there are some cases where violence is indeed related to positive psychotic symptoms like command hallucinations. But even in these cases, it may be that the command hallucinations are linked to underlying psychological factors... such as resentment, feelings of victimization, hatred of women or people in general, etc.

It is really not a simple question. I do not know of any study that looks specifically at schizophrenic serial killers. There might be one, but I do not know of it. But many of the assumptions about how a schizophrenic serial could would act are probably (in my opinion) a bit off the mark.

RH

I've looked into this in some detail also and have not come across such a study only individual cases. Statistical research also appears to differ world wide.

The case studies I looked at in the UK don't seem to function long as serial killers today, Peter Sutcliff not being a typical example.

I most look forward to reading your book and conclusions on the matter. A must for everyone to read.

Pirate

He declares that he is guided and his movements altogether controlled by an instinct that informs his mind, he says that he knows the whereabouts of all mankind, Jacob Cohen says that he walks about the streets, and picks up bits of bread from the gutter and eats them, and he refuses food from the hands of others. He took a knife and threatened the life of his sister. He has not attempted any kind of work in years ....this might be what you were looking for Errata

[GregBaron]

Two Mental Illnesses combined.....

Hi all,

If Rob is proposing a psychopath and schizophrenic in the same person I think we need to separate the two conditions. At least for the sake of argument. How these unrelated mental illnesses might relate in the mind of the afflicted is a topic that would have our greatest scientists babbling like neophytes. Anyway, to see this thought through. Suppose Koz grows up like a Ted Bundy – no conscience, no empathy, a huge risk taker, perverted sexual development etc…this condition occurs early and is certainly evident in the early teens although the afflicted may hide their increasingly pathological behavior. So JTR or Koz would probably have been trolling Whitechapel for some time peeping at people(probably prostitutes), masturbating, hurting animals or any other number of novice psychopathic behaviors. This gives him a thrill and over time his acts become increasingly risky, violent and dangerous. At some point out of the blue comes the initial manifestation of the chemical disease called schizophrenia. So the developing psycho is now hit from left field with cyclical delusional episodes. Could Koz or Jack have carried out these crimes while on the high of a schizophrenic cycle or is it more likely in those now increasingly rarer periods of lucidity that he carried out these crimes? This of course is a very difficult question. My view is that the cunning displayed would be very unlikely for a schizophrenic while “high” because their hold on reality has been hijacked. I may be wrong about this. I would expect a schizophrenic to be a mass killer rather than a serial. The guy who walked into the Capital building in Washington a few years ago and shot a couple of people was a schizophrenic who was off his meds. This is what I expect. Again, MJK could indicate a schizophrenic in the throngs of a maniacal delusional episode. I don’t know. But if it was, he got his act together enough to get out of there and not get caught. Sorry, I’m just kind of throwing stuff out there but I must say this is a topic I know something about and I’ll be interested in others’ opinions. This is only one way to look at things and there are others. I’m just interested in escalating the conversation. Sorry for the long post also. One more thing, obviously I’m assuming that Koz is JTR and that he is also schizophrenic.


Greg