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baron
8th December 2007, 08:47 AM
22 Batty Street was the address of "the Lodger" from the story regarding the middle-aged, German woman who told of the missing tenant. If Mrs. Roth lived there in 1888, she would be 33-34, hardly middle-aged today, but perhaps, considering the possible life a Polish immigrant may have undergone, appearing middle-aged wouldn't have been out of the question. A Yiddish speaker is easily mistaken for a German, of course, as the language is derivative of German.
It does look as if Aaron was sheltered and protected by his people, doesn't it?
Maybe all of these Kosminskis, and Kozminskys, and Kosminskys were related, even if distantly, and this connection was enough to keep Aaron out of harm's way.
Chris, I'm very thankful for the information that you have been providing. Your thoughts are not even remotely fanciful and seem to connect many of the vague bits of information we have in a very probable fashion.
I would say that though you may be right about Anderson making a late suspect fit into an earlier opinion, Anderson may have had that British prejudice that was so Victorian, that all immigrants were of a lower class, and so, any Jewish suspect would have fit into that low-class Jew mold.
I think the things that you and Rob House (thank you to Rob too) have researched, show the probability that Isaac and, perhaps Woolf were not typical poor immigrants, and that they may have had some means. This may mean they had decent educations too, like many of the immigrants that were members of the Berner Street Club, creating a possible connection in that direction. This also may mean that Aaron, though unemployed for some time, may have had access to some money that would allow him to solicit prostitutes. He also would have had access to clothing through his brother's shop and clean clothing through his sister and other possible relations that helped to take care of him.
This is all very exciting stuff.
Thanks again,
Mike
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robert
8th December 2007, 01:29 PM
We don't know Aaron's mental state during 1888, but if his delusion that he knew the movements of all mankind was operative at the time, then it might explain the apparent daring nature of the murders. He would know no fear. Once convinced that he wouldn't be disturbed, he'd feel uncatchable.
If someone whom he wasn't expecting came along, he would of course rationalise it to preserve his delusion, in the manner typical of the mentally ill
Robert
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baron
8th December 2007, 01:53 PM
Robert,
Yes! This idea that he couldn't be caught or that he was guided by someone/something, coupled with the protection his relations may have given him, may have actually made him uncatchable to a large extent. If there were Berner Street connections, there may have even been greater feelings of invincibility. Of course, the driving force behind the murders may have had only to do with the imagined guidance.
I wonder if, in 1888, his family still had hopes that they could nurture him and make him well somehow. Perhaps as many schizophrenics, he had many moments of clarity that gave his family hope.
All speculative of course, but some good stuff regardless.
Mike
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Ben
8th December 2007, 04:45 PM
but if his delusion that he knew the movements of all mankind was operative at the time, then it might explain the apparent daring nature of the murders.
He must also have known the bowel movements of all mankind, in Cadosche's case.
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cgp100
9th December 2007, 02:28 AM
Continuing on the class issue, it might also be said that while Polish sources describe Aaron's father, Abram Joseph Kozminski, only as a tailor, the death certificate of his widow Golda does specify that he was a "tailor (master)".
And while on two occasions in the 1880s Aaron's brothers made their marks instead of signing their names, I think this must have been because they could write in Yiddish but not (yet) in English. At any rate, this seems to have been the case for their father Abram. On the records of the births of his sons Iciek and Aron - obtained by Rob House and posted here (http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=1070) - appears his signature in Yiddish (see below).
Chris Phillips
9802
9803
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cgp100
9th December 2007, 02:53 AM
The marriage record of the couple known in England as Woolf and Betsy Abrahams has now appeared on the excellent "Jewish Records Indexing - Poland" website (http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/).
The index entry, for a marriage in Kolo in 1881 (LDS film number 1618502), reads:
KOZMINSKI, Wolek Lajb, [aged] 21, [son of] Abram Josif [and] Golda, bachelor [of] Klodawa
KOZMINSKI, Brucha, [aged] 25, [daughter of] Kasriel Szlama [and] Ryfka, maiden
The bridegroom's age agrees with what English records say about Woolf Abrahams, his parents' names are those of Aaron's parents, and his place of residence is that of Aaron's birth. By a strange coincidence I have recently seen another record of a man who was known in Poland as Wolek Lajb and in England as Woolf Leib.
Though the estimates of Betsy Abrahams's age vary quite a bit, the age above is consistent with that given in the 1891 census. That she was also a Kozminski is, of course, consistent with the information from the birth certificate of Woolf and Betsy's daughter Matilda (1890), originally published by Mark King. This is what has misled previous researchers into assuming that Woolf was Aaron's brother-in-law.
In fact, Woolf and his wife must have been cousins (though apparently not first cousins). The records in the index have some puzzling features, but there is a likely marriage for Betsy's/Brucha's father Kasriel in 1849, according to which he was the son of Moszka Kozminkiewicz and Rozalia Blechert of Grzegorzew. Woolf's father Abram also came from Grzegorzew, but his father was named Iciek (or Utski) and his mother Malgorzata (or Malka).
At any rate, this marriage entry should dispel any lingering doubts that Woolf Abrahams and Aaron were brothers.
Chris Phillips
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robert
9th December 2007, 12:29 PM
And also should settle which woman Aaron allegedly attacked with a knife.
Robert
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cgp100
9th December 2007, 12:56 PM
And also should settle which woman Aaron allegedly attacked with a knife.
Yes. We know there were at least three other sisters, two of whom survived until 1920 (Bertha Held and Helen Singer), but there's no evidence they were ever in England, and of course Aaron had been living in the same house as his sister Matilda immediately before Jacob Cohen said that he had "[taken] up a knife & threatened the life of his sister".
Chris Phillips
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robert
9th December 2007, 03:16 PM
Was it the dog or the man that should have been muzzled?
LLOYD'S WEEKLY DEC 15th 1889
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baron
8th December 2007, 08:47 AM
22 Batty Street was the address of "the Lodger" from the story regarding the middle-aged, German woman who told of the missing tenant. If Mrs. Roth lived there in 1888, she would be 33-34, hardly middle-aged today, but perhaps, considering the possible life a Polish immigrant may have undergone, appearing middle-aged wouldn't have been out of the question. A Yiddish speaker is easily mistaken for a German, of course, as the language is derivative of German.
It does look as if Aaron was sheltered and protected by his people, doesn't it?
Maybe all of these Kosminskis, and Kozminskys, and Kosminskys were related, even if distantly, and this connection was enough to keep Aaron out of harm's way.
Chris, I'm very thankful for the information that you have been providing. Your thoughts are not even remotely fanciful and seem to connect many of the vague bits of information we have in a very probable fashion.
I would say that though you may be right about Anderson making a late suspect fit into an earlier opinion, Anderson may have had that British prejudice that was so Victorian, that all immigrants were of a lower class, and so, any Jewish suspect would have fit into that low-class Jew mold.
I think the things that you and Rob House (thank you to Rob too) have researched, show the probability that Isaac and, perhaps Woolf were not typical poor immigrants, and that they may have had some means. This may mean they had decent educations too, like many of the immigrants that were members of the Berner Street Club, creating a possible connection in that direction. This also may mean that Aaron, though unemployed for some time, may have had access to some money that would allow him to solicit prostitutes. He also would have had access to clothing through his brother's shop and clean clothing through his sister and other possible relations that helped to take care of him.
This is all very exciting stuff.
Thanks again,
Mike
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.
.
.
robert
8th December 2007, 01:29 PM
We don't know Aaron's mental state during 1888, but if his delusion that he knew the movements of all mankind was operative at the time, then it might explain the apparent daring nature of the murders. He would know no fear. Once convinced that he wouldn't be disturbed, he'd feel uncatchable.
If someone whom he wasn't expecting came along, he would of course rationalise it to preserve his delusion, in the manner typical of the mentally ill
Robert
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.
.
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baron
8th December 2007, 01:53 PM
Robert,
Yes! This idea that he couldn't be caught or that he was guided by someone/something, coupled with the protection his relations may have given him, may have actually made him uncatchable to a large extent. If there were Berner Street connections, there may have even been greater feelings of invincibility. Of course, the driving force behind the murders may have had only to do with the imagined guidance.
I wonder if, in 1888, his family still had hopes that they could nurture him and make him well somehow. Perhaps as many schizophrenics, he had many moments of clarity that gave his family hope.
All speculative of course, but some good stuff regardless.
Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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.
.
.
Ben
8th December 2007, 04:45 PM
but if his delusion that he knew the movements of all mankind was operative at the time, then it might explain the apparent daring nature of the murders.
He must also have known the bowel movements of all mankind, in Cadosche's case.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
.
.
.
.
cgp100
9th December 2007, 02:28 AM
Continuing on the class issue, it might also be said that while Polish sources describe Aaron's father, Abram Joseph Kozminski, only as a tailor, the death certificate of his widow Golda does specify that he was a "tailor (master)".
And while on two occasions in the 1880s Aaron's brothers made their marks instead of signing their names, I think this must have been because they could write in Yiddish but not (yet) in English. At any rate, this seems to have been the case for their father Abram. On the records of the births of his sons Iciek and Aron - obtained by Rob House and posted here (http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=1070) - appears his signature in Yiddish (see below).
Chris Phillips
9802
9803
------------------------------------------------------------------------
.
.
.
.
cgp100
9th December 2007, 02:53 AM
The marriage record of the couple known in England as Woolf and Betsy Abrahams has now appeared on the excellent "Jewish Records Indexing - Poland" website (http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/).
The index entry, for a marriage in Kolo in 1881 (LDS film number 1618502), reads:
KOZMINSKI, Wolek Lajb, [aged] 21, [son of] Abram Josif [and] Golda, bachelor [of] Klodawa
KOZMINSKI, Brucha, [aged] 25, [daughter of] Kasriel Szlama [and] Ryfka, maiden
The bridegroom's age agrees with what English records say about Woolf Abrahams, his parents' names are those of Aaron's parents, and his place of residence is that of Aaron's birth. By a strange coincidence I have recently seen another record of a man who was known in Poland as Wolek Lajb and in England as Woolf Leib.
Though the estimates of Betsy Abrahams's age vary quite a bit, the age above is consistent with that given in the 1891 census. That she was also a Kozminski is, of course, consistent with the information from the birth certificate of Woolf and Betsy's daughter Matilda (1890), originally published by Mark King. This is what has misled previous researchers into assuming that Woolf was Aaron's brother-in-law.
In fact, Woolf and his wife must have been cousins (though apparently not first cousins). The records in the index have some puzzling features, but there is a likely marriage for Betsy's/Brucha's father Kasriel in 1849, according to which he was the son of Moszka Kozminkiewicz and Rozalia Blechert of Grzegorzew. Woolf's father Abram also came from Grzegorzew, but his father was named Iciek (or Utski) and his mother Malgorzata (or Malka).
At any rate, this marriage entry should dispel any lingering doubts that Woolf Abrahams and Aaron were brothers.
Chris Phillips
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.
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robert
9th December 2007, 12:29 PM
And also should settle which woman Aaron allegedly attacked with a knife.
Robert
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.
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cgp100
9th December 2007, 12:56 PM
And also should settle which woman Aaron allegedly attacked with a knife.
Yes. We know there were at least three other sisters, two of whom survived until 1920 (Bertha Held and Helen Singer), but there's no evidence they were ever in England, and of course Aaron had been living in the same house as his sister Matilda immediately before Jacob Cohen said that he had "[taken] up a knife & threatened the life of his sister".
Chris Phillips
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.
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robert
9th December 2007, 03:16 PM
Was it the dog or the man that should have been muzzled?
LLOYD'S WEEKLY DEC 15th 1889
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), looking a bit vacant and in their own little world, and possibly even muttering to themselves. He needs his brother there with him because he has got himself into a bit of bother over the dog he was walking unmuzzled. Then he comes out with the priceless information that he considers Abrahams easier to spell than Kosminski! It reminds me of a joke my late father used to tell, about a man who didn't like his name, so he changed it - from William Smelly to Fred Smelly. 
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