When did investigators start watching Kozminski?

[Batman]

Rob Clack posted this on another thread regarding the house to house search - Chief Inspector Donald Swansons Home Office report dated 19th October. 80,000 pamphlets and house to house enquiries were made. The area covered was The City boundary, Lamb Street, Commercial Street, Great Eastern Railway and Buxton Street, then by Albert Street, Dunk Street, Chicksand Street and Great Garden Street to Whitechapel Road and then to the City boundary. Common Lodging houses were visited and over 2,000 lodgers were examined.

Yeah, this makes sense. That between the murder of Eddowes and Kelly they went into knock and search mode, at least asking people if they knew anything and if people could give an account of themselves. I am guessing they had a list of lodgers that couldn't be cleared by whatever methodology they had and Kozminski was on the list, but they couldn't do anything.

What was Anderson on about when he mentioned "French laws" by the way? Like they could have stopped JtR there and then if they had those laws?

If Kozminski was JtR then they were not watching him when Kelly was murdered.

They probably went through their suspect list from the search and Kozminski was the one who was in doubt for that night also.

He didn't murder anyone else while being watched and eventually deteriorated to the point he had to be put in an asylum.

JtR had craftiness to go out and murder again if he had come face to face with officers shortly after the murder of Eddowes.

Does any of that fit Kozminski to JtR?

[Scott Nelson]

So Anderson would like all to know that, as a conclusion to the house-to-house search conducted while he was away on holiday between 7 Sept & 6 Oct....."And the conclusion we came to was that he and his people were low-class Jews,..."

Really?

Yet, Anderson is on record in a H.O. file A49301/60, dated 23 Oct. over two weeks after he came back from holiday....

"That a crime of this kind should have been committed without any clue being supplied by the criminal, is unusual, but that five successive murders should have been committed without our having the slightest clue of any kind is extraordinary, if not unique, in the annals of crime".

So, which is it?

The conclusion (Ripper being a low-class Jew) arrived at from the house to house search was confirmed much later (after the 23 October 1888 report) when suspicions about Kosminski emerged and it was thought that his family had shielded him.

[Simon Wood]

Kosminski didn't live in the house-to-house search area as delineated in Swanson's 19th October report.

[Batman]

Kosminski didn't live in the house-to-house search area as delineated in Swanson's 19th October report.

Where was he?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Batman,

3 Sion Square and 16 Greenfield Street.

Check out for yourself Swanson's delineation of the search area and these two addresses on a contemporary map.

Regards,

Simon

[Batman]

Hi Batman,

3 Sion Square and 16 Greenfield Street.

Check out for yourself Swanson's delineation of the search area and these two addresses on a contemporary map.

Regards,

Simon

Thanks.

So am I right in saying those addresses are for at least 1890-1891 onwards for a time and that there is no evidence of residence from 1881 to 1889?

That the hypothesis put forward by House is that if Isaac Kozminski of 76 Goulston Street was Aaron’s brother, that this may be the connection to the searches?

[Simon Wood]

Beware of hypotheses containing an "if".

[Batman]

Beware of hypotheses containing an "if".

Okay, I understand. I am willing to entertain a hypothesis or two though. How common was the name Kozminski? House seems to think it is probable this was his brother.

[Wickerman]

It is not contradictory. He is simply saying it is unusual in general. If you read on more he starts discussing clues.

Are we talking about the same report?

Anderson goes on to mention "unnumerable suggestions" which normally would be "dismissed unnoticed", that their time has been "wasted", and that "unprincipled persons" have "endeavoured to mislead us".
No mention of clues or any sense of direction for the investigation.

Anyway, maybe you are right and it didn't turn up Kozminski. I would like to know when they started watching him. Obviously, if he killed MJK they must not have been watching him.

I've never bought into the Kozminski as a suspect theory, besides he was only twenty three not middle-aged as some witnesses claimed.
The killer was also heard to speak English quite well.

[Wickerman]

The conclusion (Ripper being a low-class Jew) arrived at from the house to house search was confirmed much later (after the 23 October 1888 report) when suspicions about Kosminski emerged and it was thought that his family had shielded him.

Presumably you are referring to July 12, 1890, when a brother of his brought Koz. to Mile End Old Town Workhouse for a short stay, then in Feb. 1891 when he was re-admitted?

I don't see the connection between Anderson's claim that as a result of the house-to-house in Sept-Oct. 1888, they concluded the Ripper was a low class Jew, and the activity concerning Kozminski almost two years later. Especially as we are to believe (per Simon) that Kozminski didn't live in the search area.

[Wickerman]

Kosminski didn't live in the house-to-house search area as delineated in Swanson's 19th October report.

We know he lived at Sion Square in July 1890, but where did he live in Oct. 1888, at the time of the search?

[J6123]

Batman, two of the victims were murdered on Fridays.

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar...1888&country=9

Well pointed out Robert, beat me to it...

[Trevor Marriott]

I've never bought into the Kozminski as a suspect theory, besides he was only twenty three not middle-aged as some witnesses claimed.
The killer was also heard to speak English quite well.

No one ever saw the killer, and with that no one could have heard him speak.

There are various witnesses who gave differing descriptions of men seen interacting with several of the victims. Not enough to categorically say that any of them can be declared as the killer.

Kosminski is a very poor suspect, and certainly not the prime suspect many make him out to be

oops, there I go using that term `prime suspect`, change that to `person of interest`

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Fisherman]

That's interesting. I read several profiles about JtR that suggested he was working a 5 day week (which in itself is strange because people probably worked a 7 day week in Whitechapel). Looks like that wasn't right at all then.

Typically, the working week comprised Monday to Saturday, with the Sunday off, leaving Saturday night open for pubcrawling etc.

If we add Tabram to the list, then the 6:th of August was a Bank Holiday Monday, but Tabram was killed in the early morning hours of the following Tuesday, an ordinary working day. Ergo, Tabram, Nichols, Chapman and Kelly were all killed in the early morning hours of working days, and they were all slain in the area encompassed by Hanbury Street and Old Montague Street.

Eddowes, and Stride, however, who were NOT killed in that district and who fell prey earlier than the other victims were both killed on the night between a Saturday and a Sunday.

So we need to look for somebody who had reason to traverse the district between Hanbury Street and Old Montague Street in the early hours of the working days, plus that somebody should preferably also have clear links to the Berner Street area and the Mitre Square ditto.

Once we find such a man, we have found ourselves a person of true interest to the investigation.

[Batman]

Typically, the working week comprised Monday to Saturday, with the Sunday off, leaving Saturday night open for pubcrawling etc.

If we add Tabram to the list, then the 6:th of August was a Bank Holiday Monday, but Tabram was killed in the early morning hours of the following Tuesday, an ordinary working day. Ergo, Tabram, Nichols, Chapman and Kelly were all killed in the early morning hours of working days, and they were all slain in the area encompassed by Hanbury Street and Old Montague Street.

Eddowes, and Stride, however, who were NOT killed in that district and who fell prey earlier than the other victims were both killed on the night between a Saturday and a Sunday.

So we need to look for somebody who had reason to traverse the district between Hanbury Street and Old Montague Street in the early hours of the working days, plus that somebody should preferably also have clear links to the Berner Street area and the Mitre Square ditto.

Once we find such a man, we have found ourselves a person of true interest to the investigation.

I think we already have using geoprofiling.

JtR wasn't aware of the mathematical ways to isolate the area where he lived if he hit in all directions away from his home. It was discovered in the 1989. Nearly years 100 years after.