Jack the Ripper At Last? by Helena Wojtczak

[Observer]

Well, I think I would find it fascinating, certainly interesting but I would not be horrified, I don't think.
As a family member of one of Chapman's victims I feel sorry and have empathy for what the poor girl went through but I accept that is what happened and is part of my family history. If it was ever proved that I was related to JtR I think I would react in the same way, as far as I would not feel responsible for crimes that I had not committed but would accept that that was a very interesting part of my family tree.
At least, that's how I think I would react. How would you?

Hi Amanda

I certainly wouldn't have a fascination, or find it interesting should I discover that I was related to JTR. Certainly disturbed, I wouldn't want to publicise the fact.

Regards

Observer

[Observer]

Evening observer,I'm not talking about a fleeting glimpse I'm saying maybe someone saw our killer at his grisly work or actually disturbed him in the act.

Hi Pinkmoon

With regard to obtaining a good description of the murderer, what difference would that make? If the killer was disturbed in the act of murder do you think he would have remained at the scene? If he was busy at his mutilation, then the witness would not get a clear view of him anyway.

I'm quite sure it did not occur.

Regards

Observer

[Observer]

You seem to be saying that, whoever the Ripper was, he MUST have been one of the blokes that one of the eyewitnesses saw, and, ergo, that if a suspect does not fit ANY of their descriptions, he cannot have been the Ripper.

My take on this is that the Ripper could have been, and almost certainly was, someone that none of the witnesses saw.

Who did Lawende see?

[Amanda Sumner]

Yes, thinking about it, certainly Annie was led into the yard at Hanbury street so we can assume that the man seen with her was Jack because she was killed, it seems, not long after she was last seen. It is very unlikely, but not impossible, that after 'biff boffing', as Sam calls it, with a client she is then killed minutes later by someone else. Shame that he was only seen from behind.
As for language, I don't think a foreigner would find the words 'Will you?' difficult to say and it's possible that they may have been the only words he needed to say. How much small talk did one need unless they knew each other?
Obviously, not all the men seen by witness's were the killer. Most were just clients, and no, I think it very unlikely that they would have come forward.

[Observer]

It's obvious that the man whom Lawende saw was involved in small talk with Kate Eddowes.

I'll ask you the same question Amanda. Whom did Lawende see standing at the entrance to Church Passage approximately 10 minutes before she was found dead?

[Amanda Sumner]

Hi Amanda

I certainly wouldn't have a fascination, or find it interesting should I discover that I was related to JTR. Certainly disturbed, I wouldn't want to publicise the fact.

Regards

Observer

Really? Why?
I can understand feeling like that if a member of one's family was a serial killer today, or in recent memory, but the Ripper died probably 125 years ago.
A less scrupulous person may well cash in on the notoriety of it all but I think I would be initially shocked/surprised but would want to find out more.
It's difficult to know, really, how one would react but I don't think I would find it personally disturbing after all these years.

Regards,

Amanda

[Observer]

What difference does the passage of time make? The fact that I had the blood of one of the most notorious killers in history running through my veins would disturb me. I would not want to find out more. My prerogative.

Regards

Observer

[Amanda Sumner]

What difference does the passage of time make? The fact that I had the blood of one of the most notorious killers in history running through my veins would disturb me. I would not want to find out more. My prerogative.

Regards

Observer

Absolutely, we are all different. I only asked because I'm interested.
I may be surprised and find myself feeling the same as you do. Fortunately it's unlikely that either of us will find out, but it's strange to think that there may be descendants out there of JtR who have no idea. Maybe it's a good thing that this case will probably never be solved.

Amanda.

[Observer]

No problem Amanda. I would say the chances are extremely high that there are direct descendants of JTR out there now. Regarding the passage of time, it's not that many generations between then and now if truth be known. My Great Grandfather was born in 1860, in my opinion, very similar in age to JTR. My father remembers him, and he described him to me.

Regards

Observer

[Observer]

incidentally, you're correct, it's very hard to project yourself into the situation where you have just discovered that JTR was an ancestor of yours. I was speaking off the top of my head. Like you, I might react very differently should I find that in truth, I am indeed a direct descendant of JTR.

Regards

Observer

[HelenaWojtczak]

, I don't think a foreigner would find the words 'Will you?' difficult to say..

Though in Chapman's case it would have been "VILL YOU?"

Helena

[HelenaWojtczak]

What difference does the passage of time make? The fact that I had the blood of one of the most notorious killers in history running through my veins would disturb me. I would not want to find out more. My prerogative.

Regards

Observer

I agree totally with Observer. I would feel very emotionally disturbed at such a discovery, for precisely the reason Observer gives - the notion that the blood of a murderer was running through my veins.

But I also acknowledge that this stems from some less-than-scientific idea that murderous tendencies are somehow "genetic" and can be inherited, which isn't possible. (For example, apparently in the UK two women a week are murdered by their partners, yet the children of these tragic unions do not appear to commit more murders than children of non-murderers.)

I guess Amanda is more logical/scientific and less emotional/superstitious than me!

Helena

[Amanda Sumner]

Though in Chapman's case it would have been "VILL YOU?"

Helena

Would it? I thought I had read somewhere that Chapman spoke with an American accent, one, I suppose, that he had developed over the years. Probably, though, as you suggest, he would have still had a strong Polish accent back in 1888. Mind you, I have read so much about Chapman that is contradictory that it's hard to know what is what. One of the reasons why I want to read your book!
I read Neil's book recently and he got dates, names and places wrong which is quite shocking really, considering he was actually a policeman on the case.
Abby has made a valid point then, that, if any of the witness's had seen Jack, none of them reported any mention of accents.

By the way, love the photo of cat. He looks like he has finished the book!

[Amanda Sumner]

It's obvious that the man whom Lawende saw was involved in small talk with Kate Eddowes.

I'll ask you the same question Amanda. Whom did Lawende see standing at the entrance to Church Passage approximately 10 minutes before she was found dead?

I have no idea, Observer, but is it possible that it was not Eddowes and her killer?
I find it odd that if this was the lady in question then there was not a lot of time before she was found dead and mutilated in Mitre Square.
Lawende only identified her by her clothes and I have already given the opinion that people, then, dressed very similarly. I can't believe that he studied her clothes in much detail.
I am sure, given the extent of her injuries, that the killer would have needed far more time to do his grisly deeds than the very few minutes that were afforded to him if he was, indeed, the man at the entrance of Church Passage.

[HelenaWojtczak]

Would it? I thought I had read somewhere that Chapman spoke with an American accent, one, I suppose, that he had developed over the years. Probably, though, as you suggest, he would have still had a strong Polish accent back in 1888. Mind you, I have read so much about Chapman that is contradictory that it's hard to know what is what. One of the reasons why I want to read your book!
I read Neil's book recently and he got dates, names and places wrong which is quite shocking really, considering he was actually a policeman on the case.
Abby has made a valid point then, that, if any of the witness's had seen Jack, none of them reported any mention of accents.

By the way, love the photo of cat. He looks like he has finished the book!

Chapman didn't go to the USA till 1891, so IF he picked up an American accent - which I would have thought unlikely as he was only there for a year - he would not have had one in 1888.

Yes, I too am appalled at Arthur Fowler Neil..... and Gosling, Buddle, RM Gordon, Fabian, Adam, Thurgood, Eddleston... I'm not saying my book is perfect, but I have, at least, tried to trace back the source of every assertion before I present it as a fact.

My cat is particularly shocked by Eddleston.

Helena