change in modus operandi

[Malcolm X]

Hi Malcolm,
don't worry about the podcast...
SK= Astakhan Man ???
I pay 3 rounds for anybody who looks like someone that doesn't exist.
Cheers.

but what happpens if Hutch was telling the truth and all of us are wrong about him, it is highly unlikely; but this has to be mentioned!

i can guarantee you that Hutch is lieing, but stranger things have happened

[Malcolm X]

You're wrong, simply.
Just check the age of the suspects.
You'll be the most ridiculous.
Nothing new.

no way, hutch was hutch, its so obvious those signatures match, Fleming is not a serial killer, he's more like Kosminski..you have nothing on him, only speculation, the only guy that was waiting outside no 13 was Hutch and Fleming is not Blotchy either, well that's my opinion anyway.. unless you can strengthen your arguements for Fleming as Blotchy.

[DVV]

Off topic, too late,
Hutch is Evans.
Good night.

[Malcolm X]

Off topic, too late,
Hutch is Evans.
Good night.

good night

[Sam Flynn]

i dont have podcast, what did Sam say about LA DE DA

... that Wolf Levisohn says, of meeting Klosowski again in Tottenham (North London) in 1894: "Oh, he was 'la di da' then". NB, "he was la di da then". Levisohn is telling us that Klosowski's appearance had made quite an improvement since he'd first met him in East London in the late 1880s.

[Malcolm X]

... that Wolf Levisohn says, of meeting Klosowski again in Tottenham (North London) in 1894: "Oh, he was 'la di da' then". NB, "he was la di da then". Levisohn is telling us that Klosowski's appearance had made quite an improvement since he'd first met him in East London in the late 1880s.

ok thanks, but this does not tally with Sugden does it Sam, page 442, ``there he sits, he has not altered since he came to England, the same la di da and umbrella`` but this Levisohn didn't know Chapman till 1890, which is more than a year later...............uuuumm

this Levishohn is not telling us that Chapman had made quite an improvement since he first met him, because at the trial, he's telling us that chapman looked exactly the same in 1890......even his hair!

can you please confirm your source, because he could've been saying ``he was LA DI DA back then``....thanks

[jmenges]

Not speaking for Gareth, but I believe his source would be H.L. Adam's Notable British Trials Series The Trial of George Chapman, rather than Sugden.

JM

[Sam Flynn]

ok thanks, this does not tally with Sugden does it Sam, page 442, ``there he sits, he has not altered since he came to England, the same la di da and umbrella``

After answering questions about his earlier meetings (in the late 1880s) with Klosowski, Levisohn moves on to detail his seeing him in Tottenham, much later. He is questioned specifically about this meeting:

Q: You saw him in Tottenham? What kind of a man was he?

A: He was 'la de da' then, with black coat, high hat and patent boots. There he sits. He has not changed a bit. He has not a grey hair on his head.



... I reiterate that Levisohn said: "he was a la de da then" (this was 1894, remember). There's no mention of an umbrella, and the phrase "he has not altered since he came to England" does not get used, either. And Jon's quite right - I'm quoting the transcript of the Police Court hearing as printed in HL Adam.

[Natalie Severn]

Nontheless, Sam, the impression one gets from the arrangement of word order by Levishon,is that Chapman has always "looked" exactly the same and indeed this does seem to be born out by the fact that in a photo taken in 1901 when he had just married the teenage Maud Marsh and was wearing smart tailored suit and tails complete with black tie and a carnation in his lapel, he was approaching 40,yet he looks younger than he did in the photo of him wearing the sailor cap ,taken several years previously, with Bessie Taylor.
The "la di da" would surely have been in reference to his use of the English language ,since "la di da" actually means: "pretending to a higher social position than one actually is BY USE OF unnaturally delicate manners,ways of speaking---------
Longmans Dictionary.

[Ben]

Hi Norma,

I think the salient point is that there's no evidence that Klowoski dressed - or even could dress - "La di da" in 1888.

Best regards,
Ben

[Sam Flynn]

Nontheless, Sam, the impression one gets from the arrangement of word order by Levishon,is that Chapman has always "looked" exactly the same.

With respect, it isn't, Nats. The excerpt I posted demonstrates quite clearly that Levisohn was asked to comment on what Klosowski looked like when he saw him in 1894.

"You saw him in Tottenham? What kind of a man was he?"

"He was 'la de da' then..."

The line of questioning was necessary to ensure that Levisohn had the right man - he knew Klosowski as "Ludwig Zagowski", remember - which puts the "he has not changed a bit" comment in its proper context. The import is quite clear: "Even though he used a different name, I am confident it is him because he became the 'la de da' I saw in 1894, and that's him in the dock".

[Malcolm X]

i dont agree, he sais in court ````there he sits, he has not altered since he came to England, the same la di da and umbrella``...Levishon first saw Chapman back in 1890....he's refering to 1980 and not 1894 .....Sugden goes on to say ``but by 1890 he had already cultivated a taste for fastidious dressing, complete with......``..according Levishon's testimony Chapman was calling himseld Zagowski back in 1890, so Levishon is refering to 1890, when he sais in court that he hasn't changesd at all, the same LA DI DA

i'm not happy about this at all Sam !

[Sam Flynn]

i dont agree, he sais in court ````there he sits, he has not altered since he came to England, the same la di da and umbrella``

... but I've given you the direct quote. The passage you cite comes from Adam's Introduction to his book - the selfsame Introduction that gave us the confusing account of the mysterious "Polish wife" and the (almost certainly spurious) story about Abberline's telling Godley "You've got Jack the Ripper at last!".

Apropos the "high hat and umbrella" episode, it's perhaps unfortunate that Sugden chose to latch onto this passage, and it seems to have been taken out of context ever since. Reading the line of questioning taken at the Police Court, however, one clearly sees that Levisohn was responding to a direct question about what Klosowski was like when he saw him at Tottenham in 1894.

Stanislaus Baderski's evidence, at the same hearing, bears this out: "[Baderski] had not seen the accused from [1892] until he saw him in the dock - an interval of ten years. The accused had not changed in appearance."

Incidentally, the expression "La-di-da", it seems to have taken off after it had been popularised by the Music Hall singer, Nelly Power, in the 1880s:

He wears a penny flower in his coat, La-di-da!
And a penny paper collar round his throat, La-di-da!
In his hand a penny stick,
In his tooth a penny pick,
And a penny in his pocket, La-di-da!

... not that it has much to do with the price of fish, but I thought you might find it interesting.

[Malcolm X]

yes maybe Sugden got his information wrong...but the trouble is i cant comment fully without seeing all of the court records, which i dont have.

whatever the case, Hutch's statement is a load of rubbish anyway; so there you go.

[Natalie Severn]

With respect, it isn't, Nats. The excerpt I posted demonstrates quite clearly that Levisohn was asked to comment on what Klosowski looked like when he saw him in 1894.

"You saw him in Tottenham? What kind of a man was he?"

"He was 'la de da' then..."

The line of questioning was necessary to ensure that Levisohn had the right man - he knew Klosowski as "Ludwig Zagowski", remember - which puts the "he has not changed a bit" comment in its proper context. The import is quite clear: "Even though he used a different name, I am confident it is him because he became the 'la de da' I saw in 1894, and that's him in the dock".

With respect Sam,Levishon did not say,as you write immediately above," He became the," la di da" .This changes its meaning entirely.If I remember correctly Levishon had been asked about Severin"s LINGUISTIC SKILLS during these interrogations.You and I have had several discussions about whether or not Levishon as his Polish speaking compatriot,would have been able to "assess" Severin"s command of English since they would almost certainly have been speaking Polish together-their mother tongues ,when the met up in England after knowing each other in Warsaw.In ordinary English usage "La di Da" is a term used to describe someone trying to SPEAK " POSH" its not about how you have dressed yourself or what you are wearing.