a consideration of Behavior's

[protohistorian]

In the case of Severin Klosowski ( henceforth to be called K for short ) I should like to share some salient points from Trial of George Chapman edited by Hargrove L. Adam.

1. K at arrest, and by testimony had before his arrest kept rather substancial amounts of money "stashed" in his abode. K's own reason for this behavior was a distrust of banks. The point alone is ambiguos but may play a role in a gestaltic whole (P.41).

2. K had earier in life "abandoned" his social position and left that social context entirely. His position at Praga was that of assistant surgeon, and he left it to enlist in the Russian Army at Warsaw. ( P. 2)

3. Thought little of and was risk averse to the governing structures within the social context he inhabited. K understood without doubt that poisoning your wife was not a socially sanctioned activity.


4. Gave little or consideration to human beings that ostencibly occupied a prominent place within his own social construct (wives). ( You need a page number,....really?)

5. Never admits to being Severin Klosowski at trial, and consequently, never accepts responcibility for his actions. On page 37 his strenuous efforts to shift his identified nationality from Polish to English.

6. P.38 is in part a discussion of his" morbid interest in criminal law"

7. p.37 is a multi specific example of demonstrated mendacity.

8. P.71 the chemist describes K. as "intellectual

9. p. 135 K. is taunting Bessies friend that she is dead when she is not

I really like these 2 see if you can guess why

10. p.37 shooting rats beneath the Crown for fun

11. p.43 "obvoius arson

So here a fusion of the above

Hi my name is George Chapman and I am definately not Polish, for the love of all that is Holy, not Polish. I don't give a rats ass sbout your or anyone elses rules. I like shooting rats and taunting people about there friends deaths before they have even happened, oh and I study how criminals get away. I am biologically uncaple of relating any "truth" that may make appear anything less than Godlike. Things that make me happy.....hmmmmm....big rolls of cash in my house.


I forgot the matter of a "missing polish "wife"and semi literate in surgery. Please more knowlege people help me if I have forgotten anything.

P.S. NO THIS GUY COULD NOT HAVE KILLED ANYONE BEFORE MRS> SPINK, saying anything else will get you crucified.

[protohistorian]

[QUOTE=protohistorian;68002]In the case of Severin Klosowski ( henceforth to be called K for short ) I should like to share some salient points from Trial of George Chapman edited by Hargrove L. Adam.

1. K at arrest, and by testimony had before his arrest kept rather substancial amounts of money "stashed" in his abode. K's own reason for this behavior was a distrust of banks. The point alone is neutral but may play a role in a gestaltic whole (P.41).

2. K had earier in life "abandoned" his social position and left that social context entirely. His position at Praga was that of assistant surgeon, and he left it to enlist in the Russian Army at Warsaw. ( P. 2)

3. Thought little of, and was risk averse to the governing structures within the social context he inhabited. K understood without doubt that poisoning your wife was not a socially sanctioned activity.


4. Gave little or consideration to human beings that ostencibly occupied a prominent place within his own social construct (wives).

5. Never admits to being Severin Klosowski at trial, and consequently, never accepts responsibility for his actions. On page 37 are the details of his strenuous efforts to shift his identified nationality from Polish to English.

6. P.38 is in part a discussion of his" morbid interest in criminal law"

7. p.37 is a multi specific example of demonstrated mendacity.


8. p. 135 K. is taunting Bessies friend that she is dead when she is not

I really like these 2 see if you can guess why

9. p.37 shooting rats beneath the Crown for fun

10. p.43 "obvoius arson"

So here a fusion of the above

Hi my name is George Chapman and I am definately not Polish, for the love of all that is Holy, not Polish. I don't give a damn about your or anyone else's rules. I like shooting rats and taunting people about there friend's deaths before they have even happened, oh and I study how criminals get away. I am biologically uncaple of relating any "truth" that may make appear anything less than Godlike. Things that make me happy.....hmmmmm....big rolls of cash in my house.


I forgot the matter of a "missing polish "wife"and semi literate in surgery. And then theres the matter of the only reason he stopped killing was the Queen's rope.

[Sam Flynn]

And then theres the matter of the only reason he stopped killing was the Queen's rope.

What stopped him from killing between 1888 and 1897, Dave?

[Natalie Severn]

What stopped him from killing between 1888 and 1897, Dave?

Sam,
How do you know he stopped killing between 1888 and 1897? If he was Jack he knew how to avoid getting caught.
Best

[protohistorian]

What stopped him from killing between 1888 and 1897, Dave?

As far as we know nothing. Linkage blindness has likely prevented us from seeing something. Given his pathology, nothing would keep him from disposing of anyone that he deemed "unworthy" of life. Adam has little to say on that span of time. I am efforting extracting witness testimonies over that period. The point being there MAY be a pause, we have little information on Severin's activities. Considering the known events of his life, the chronic lack of success and stability mean that there is a high probability, that he encountered stress induced triggers. What outlet he might have had is as yet unknown. Respectfully Dave

[Sam Flynn]

But, Dave - there were no mysterious deaths during that period that can be seriously attributed to Klosowski, and certainly no Ripper-like murders. Klosowski's relationships are accounted for during nearly all that time, and each of his "wives" during that period outlived him. Klosowski bought some tartar-emetic from Davidson in Hastings, and only after that time do we find Klosowski's known crimes starting. The most reasonable conclusion is that Klosowski's murderous career only began in 1897, and was only made possible after that bottle of poison was bought.

[protohistorian]

As far as we know nothing. Linkage blindness has likely prevented us from seeing something. Given his pathology, nothing would keep him from disposing of anyone that he deemed "unworthy" of life. Adam has little to say on that span of time. I am efforting extracting witness testimonies over that period. The point being there MAY be a pause, we have little information on Severin's activities. Considering the known events of his life, the chronic lack of success and stability mean that there is a high probability, that he encountered stress induced triggers. What outlet he might have had is as yet unknown. Respectfully Dave

Additionally, IF Severin committed one or more of the c5, the likelyhood of repeat behaviors in differing modes would be highly likely. His pathology is such that he is prone to experiencial addiction. Once he kills, he is prone to recieving a rush of sorts, this will diminish with each repeat of the behavior. Not viewing victims as human beings means that he would likely not feel guilt. If It were to dawn on him the barbarity of his actions, facial mutilation would be an expected result, an attempt within his mind to remove the features that mark the victim as human. This behavior should not be confused with guilt, Severin at least later in life, was beyond feelings of guilt. The behavior is instead a self serving mechanism, a way of removing any doubt from his own mind that the behavior was wrong. The facial mutilations would not be centered on the victim per se, but would be serving a function within the mind of Severin. He would not care for the plight of victims, only for poor little Severin. Respectfully Dave

[protohistorian]

But, Dave - there were no mysterious deaths during that period that can be seriously attributed to Klosowski, and certainly no Ripper-like murders. Klosowski's relationships are accounted for during nearly all that time, and each of his "wives" during that period outlived him. Klosowski bought some tartar-emetic from Davidson in Hastings, and only after that time do we find Klosowski's known crimes starting. The most reasonable conclusion is that Klosowski's murderous career only began in 1897, and was only made possible after that bottle of poison was bought.

Firstly, the willingness and forthought to purchase poison (ostencibily for use on people) strongly implies a predisposition to killing. Secondly, we have no way of knowing if there were earlier poisonings. You are correct, the prima facia evidence suggests this is the origin of behavior, and it may well be. The psychological evidence suggests that the threshold for lethal behaviors was extremely low in Severin, and consequently, everywhere the man went, we should look for bodies. We know this pathology was in place when he left Praga, and there is good reason to believe it existed before that.

[Sam Flynn]

Sounds feasible, Dave - although there are any number of plausible "motivic histories" we could invent, none of which can ever be proven. What CAN be proven - with reasonable confidence - is that Klosowski's poisoning spree only happened after he'd purchased the poison in Davidson's shop. It's also apparent that there were no unequivocally "Ripperesque" murders, or wife-poisonings, in any place Klosowski lived between November 1888 and Christmas 1897.

[protohistorian]

Sounds feasible, Dave - although there are any number of plausible "motivic histories" we could invent, none of which can ever be proven. What CAN be proven - with reasonable confidence - is that Klosowski's poisoning spree only happened after he'd purchased the poison in Davidson's shop. It's also apparent that there were no unequivocally "Ripperesque" murders, or wife-poisonings, in any place Klosowski lived between November 1888 and Christmas 1897.

I would not look for ripper like behaviors. If he had been trying to recapture the thrill of early kills by escalating ferocity and did not recapture that feeling after Kelly, he would be done with that mode of crime. There is very little room for further escalation in violence after Kelly. The need to find a "better" methodology would be apparent to him. Subsequent attempts at recapturing that feeling would not contain elements of rippings. They are not likely to be shootings, and they are not likely to be knifings. The case of Mylett is interesting because it is post Kelly and with a garrot. Respectfully Dave

[Natalie Severn]

I would not look for ripper like behaviors. If he had been trying to recapture the thrill of early kills by escalating ferocity and did not recapture that feeling after Kelly, he would be done with that mode of crime. There is very little room for further escalation in violence after Kelly. The need to find a "better" methodology would be apparent to him. Subsequent attempts at recapturing that feeling would not contain elements of rippings. They are not likely to be shootings, and they are not likely to be knifings. The case of Mylett is interesting because it is post Kelly and with a garrot. Respectfully Dave

Yes Dave,all possible . However I am a bit interested in whether or not he believed he was being given instructions by "an outside force"/hearing voices etc -----in other words, was he paranoid?----some of the stuff that comes through from his trial indicates a rather sudden and unexpected need to get rid of his wife,the motive is very obscure,he didnt inherit for example.Nevertheless he feels the need to "be movin on an get outa here"and very cold bloodedly begins killing her.

Nats

[protohistorian]

Yes Dave,all possible . However I am a bit interested in whether or not he believed he was being given instructions by "an outside force"/hearing voices etc -----in other words, was he paranoid?----some of the stuff that comes through from his trial indicates a rather sudden and unexpected need to get rid of his wife,the motive is very obscure,he didnt inherit for example.Nevertheless he feels the need to "be movin on an get outa here"and very cold bloodedly begins killing her.

Nats

I have not found anything like an external motivator or even voices. I rather expect he did not have symptoms of that nature. The motive would be obscure, the only place the behavior is likely to make sense is in his head. We only have shallow approximations, and can identify likely triggers.His response like his motive would likely not have a presence discernable to an outside observer. It is entirely probable that his contemoraries would not spot any anomalies. Look at his mentors as a case and point. Severin's triggers were likely to be external to himself but on the order of interpersonal interactions. We could be looking at victims that all had haircuts from this guy and just smarted off, it could literally be that small in scale. Respectfully Dave

[Sam Flynn]

Subsequent attempts at recapturing that feeling would not contain elements of rippings. The case of Mylett is interesting because it is post Kelly and with a garrot.

But Mylett would only move forward the start-date Klosowski's "sabbatical" by one month, Dave. That would still leave a period from December 1888 to December 1897 unaccounted-for.

I would not look for ripper like behaviors. The need to find a "better" methodology would be apparent to him.

Does he, like some prototype Wile E Coyote, therefore try out ever more weird and wonderful techniques for getting his "fix"? Did he tire of ripping and stealing organs, before having a go at garroting, graduating to dropping anvils off tall buildings onto unsuspecting passers-by? To be fair, there's not much of a leap from "streetwalker" to "roadrunner", but I can't see it somehow.

It's the putative "winding-down" after Kelly, and the advent of a much more "genteel" pathology, that's so puzzling.

[protohistorian]

But Mylett would only move forward the start-date Klosowski's "sabbatical" by one month, Dave. That would still leave a period from December 1888 to December 1897 unaccounted-for.

Does he, like some prototype Wile E Coyote, therefore try out ever more weird and wonderful techniques for getting his "fix"? Did he tire of ripping and stealing organs, before having a go at garroting, graduating to dropping anvils off tall buildings onto unsuspecting passers-by? To be fair, there's not much of a leap from "streetwalker" to "roadrunner", but I can't see it somehow.

It's the putative "winding-down" after Kelly, and the advent of a much more "genteel" pathology, that's so puzzling.

He no longer enjoyed rippings. We shopuld expect a change in behavior to one he found more gratifying. Unfortunately for his contemoraries, this is gonna require experimentation.

[Sam Flynn]

He no longer enjoyed rippings.

That's conjecture, I'm afraid, Dave.

Unfortunately for his contemoraries, this is gonna require experimentation.

But there's no evidence that anything untoward happened in Klosowski's milieu for 9 whole years after the Ripper murders.