thought experiment

[HelenaWojtczak]

Got a bit more for you all

1891 census.

John Haddon, 3 Market Buildings, West Green Road, hairdresser and umbrella maker, b Northampton 1846.

Wife Mary, 45, born Bristol.

Assistant (living in) Samuel Stewart (doing the job Seweryn Klosowski performed about 4 years later).

Then as above, by 1896 John is gone and Mary is the proprietor and hair dresser, and though the address is slightly different I think it's probably the same building, just renumbered.

[HelenaWojtczak]

More likely, Abraham Radin - quite possibly the "Mr 'Addin" who owned a barbershop in Tottenham at which Klosowski later worked

After hours of research, I can now conclusively state that the "Haddin" hairdresser was NOT Radin's. Hurrah!

Historicaldirectories site gives Kelly's 1896 listing at 5 West Green Road, South Tottenham as ......"Mrs Mary Haddon, hair dresser."

So that clears THAT up!

Helena

[Malcolm X]

Sleepy Hollow was terrific----I still havent seen Edward Scissorhands----!!!

Hey I just realised that it looks like I am saying Abberline was a Dandy! I mean Chapman was the man wearing the green carnation----like Oscar Wilde did.So was Chapman a closet gay?

What with all the women he s******, i doubt it
anyway, i'm off to work....i'll talk later

[Natalie Severn]

yes, J Depp's best film for me was E.Scissorhands.... or maybe Sleepy Hollow, i didn't like From Hell.

Sleepy Hollow was terrific----I still havent seen Edward Scissorhands----!!!

Hey I just realised that it looks like I am saying Abberline was a Dandy! I mean Chapman was the man wearing the green carnation----like Oscar Wilde did.So was Chapman a closet gay?

[Malcolm X]

Malcolm,
Well you see I have this soft spot for Inspector Abberline since I saw Johnny Depp play him in" From Hell".[I do know Abberline wasnt like Johnny though]

But what also threw me into a spin was seeing him in a photograph with his moustache curled up,a waistcoat over a shirt and watch chain smart well tailored trousers....and wait for it-----sporting what I believe was a GREEN CARNATION in his button hole lapel!
It was the right size and of the right delicate shape and was only worn by a total DANDY it was THE most cutting edge symbol of high fashion in the 1890"s!

yes, J Depp's best film for me was E.Scissorhands.... or maybe Sleepy Hollow, i didn't like From Hell.

[Natalie Severn]

hi Nats

i think he quit the street murders after leaving London and i dont think he killed ``old shakespear`` either, he doesn't fit the suspect profile...
(that's if he's the ripper)

he just quit the killings and switched M.O to avoid detection, this is dead easy to understand for me, BUT... like you, it still feels wrong

it's 50:50......... the ripper yes but at the same time no i just cant make my mind up, i see Hutch as a far more likely Ripper.

you see, if Hutch was telling the truth (almost definitely lieing) ...but you can never be sure in this life, then he saw G.Chapman....now this i'm convinced of..utterly!

but i think Hutch is lieing through his teeth.....but Abberline believed his statement.......something very odd is going on and i'm afraid the answer lies with Hutch........ he knows who the Ripper is, or he's the ripper.

the ripper is easy to understand when you're away from this forum, but it gets confusing when you read all the great posts

Malcolm,
Well you see I have this soft spot for Inspector Abberline since I saw Johnny Depp play him in" From Hell".[I do know Abberline wasnt like Johnny though]

But what also threw me into a spin was seeing him in a photograph with his moustache curled up,a waistcoat over a shirt and watch chain smart well tailored trousers....and wait for it-----sporting what I believe was a GREEN CARNATION in his button hole lapel!
It was the right size and of the right delicate shape and was only worn by a total DANDY it was THE most cutting edge symbol of high fashion in the 1890"s!

[Malcolm X]

Malcolm X,
I just dont know why, Malcolm,As I said its only a hunch I have that he was JtR.The change from ripper to poisoner is the part that is very difficult to get through.

Unless he was hiding mutilated prostitutes who needed abortions ,in places like canals/railway arches/under floor boards in Hastings/at sea whatever all the while from 1888 until 1902 and it was actually the poisoning that was the sideline when he tired of his wives.Who really knows what the body count was with so many vagrant or "unfortunate" women to take his pick from?

hi Nats

i think he quit the street murders after leaving London and i dont think he killed ``old shakespear`` either, he doesn't fit the suspect profile...
(that's if he's the ripper)

he just quit the killings and switched M.O to avoid detection, this is dead easy to understand for me, BUT... like you, it still feels wrong

it's 50:50......... the ripper yes but at the same time no i just cant make my mind up, i see Hutch as a far more likely Ripper.

you see, if Hutch was telling the truth (almost definitely lieing) ...but you can never be sure in this life, then he saw G.Chapman....now this i'm convinced of..utterly!

but i think Hutch is lieing through his teeth.....but Abberline believed his statement.......something very odd is going on and i'm afraid the answer lies with Hutch........ he knows who the Ripper is, or he's the ripper.

the ripper is easy to understand when you're away from this forum, but it gets confusing when you read all the great posts

[Natalie Severn]

Sam,
I dont know that he was a "sex maniac" actually.He was a predator certainly and knew how to entice women ,but he seems to have given more thought to the gentle art of persuasion than to the physical side of sex.He did sire a few children but given the lengthy relationships he had with Mary and Bessie he didnt seem to be all that fecund.


Malcolm X,
I just dont know why, Malcolm,As I said its only a hunch I have that he was JtR.The change from ripper to poisoner is the part that is very difficult to get through.

Unless he was hiding mutilated prostitutes who needed abortions ,in places like canals/railway arches/under floor boards in Hastings/at sea whatever all the while from 1888 until 1902 and it was actually the poisoning that was the sideline when he tired of his wives.Who really knows what the body count was with so many vagrant or "unfortunate" women to take his pick from?

[Malcolm X]

Nope, she was supposedly pretty, old enough to be any one of the other Canonicals daughters, and killed indoors in bed.

If Martha was his first, I would say respectfully that his first three victims were similar looking in almost every aspect... including less than attractive features.In their day a compliment might be offered that they were at best "handsome" or conversely, "matronly".

There were physical similarities until every crime short of buggery gets associated with Jack the Ripper....oh yeah, forgot buggery was in already.

Best regards

yea' we just dont know do we.... it's the nature of the beast, i mean this could've been D'Onston or even Maybrick. i doubt it, but you just dont know do you...

there's a line of 20 people, now pick the Zodiac... we'd all pick the wrong person

if they reveal the Ripper next week, we'd say ``bloody hell....him, i never thought that he was the killer, good grief``

[Malcolm X]

Remember too a barber shop is a place with knives,soap and water----helpful I would think for his varied "work".

yea' Sweeney Todd

``our Mrs Lovett makes right fine pies``

it was also a place for minor surgery, about 100 years earlier, amputations/ teeth extraction etc

he maybe did'nt give a damn if they were ugly/homeless, this guy was very highly sexed........in addition, Kelly wasn't ugly was she or homeless

Nope, she was supposedly pretty, old enough to be any one of the other Canonicals daughters, and killed indoors in bed.

If Martha was his first, I would say respectfully that his first three victims were similar looking in almost every aspect... including less than attractive features.In their day a compliment might be offered that they were at best "handsome" or conversely, "matronly".

There were physical similarities until every crime short of buggery gets associated with Jack the Ripper....oh yeah, forgot buggery was in already.

Best regards

[Malcolm X]

If we're just looking for a man that has a knife and could be violent....Severin fits the bill just like hundreds if not thousands of men in Londons East End at the very same time. Let alone ones that were in the Greater Metro area.

But we arent. We are looking for a rather specific kind of murderer-mutilator that covets carving and stolen organs from recently deceased women's abdomens...and commits the majority of his alleged murders in less than 10 minutes in public. Jack the Ripper is no mere cruel man, or the only one with a knife and a temper. But he is the only one besides Torso man that chooses this kind of hobby.

Cheers all.

the trouble is, we dont have many other suspects..only broadshoulders/ hutch...or whoever the hell they were

[Malcolm X]

Probably because they would have been much easier to kill...or did I miss something here? Good looking ones for sex, homeless ones for killing.

c.d.

he maybe did'nt give a damn if they were ugly/homeless, this guy was very highly sexed........in addition, Kelly wasn't ugly was she or homeless

If we're just looking for a man that has a knife and could be violent....Severin fits the bill just like hundreds if not thousands of men in Londons East End at the very same time. Let alone ones that were in the Greater Metro area.

But we arent. We are looking for a rather specific kind of murderer-mutilator that covets carving and stolen organs from recently deceased women's abdomens...and commits the majority of his alleged murders in less than 10 minutes in public. Jack the Ripper is no mere cruel man, or the only one with a knife and a temper. But he is the only one besides Torso man that chooses this kind of hobby.

Cheers all.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Sam,
Yes I am well ready to accept he wasnt "living" there---- not if he had any unusual extra curricular sideline going on like say an abortion that turned into a torso!

Joking aside,Mrs Radan said he lodged with her for about six months. This too was only a walk away ---or a tram ride away, from Cable Street and Whitechapel .He was at Mrs Radan"s probably from June 1887 when he is thought to have arrived here.If that is so then the Cable Street address was from sometime AFTER the closing date for the Post Office Directory of 1888 in December 1887.
However,another important thing to remember is that he was recorded as having a business interest in Whitechapel over the whole period from sometime in 1888 to 1891 and this was his "own" barber shop----nobody else was on the deed of the lease of that shop ,a shop moreover which was right next to Pinchin Street where a headless torso was found.Remember too a barber shop is a place with knives,soap and water----helpful I would think for his varied "work".