thought experiment

[Sam Flynn]

What is the state of evidence on the assertion of financial gain?

Klosowski's first (known) poison victim, Mary Spink, had an inheritance of several hundred pounds, if I remember correctly.

[jmenges]

What is the state of evidence on the assertion of financial gain?

I don't have the HL Adams in front of me but I'll pick it up shortly. So, in honesty, I can't point to a specific example. Whether it had something to do with his last attempt to quickly procure a death certificate (which was refused), the suggestion that he killed those who became financial burdens (like potentially his own offspring), and the attempted arson of the building he was leasing. Together, if true, these suggest that part of his motivation was financial.

Chapman has been characterized as a man who callously rid himself of the women whom he tired of. Once the female in his life bored him, snap of the fingers and they could be gone. This to me is an altogether different mindset from the random, quick, stranger killings of the Ripper. You say this behavior points to an evolution of his organization, but Chapman seems to settle into domestic relationships and then become unsettled, then murder or not murder. Its hard for me at least to connect the two as an evolution of his technique.

JM

[protohistorian]

Hi Dave,

Two things,

It appears that a motive for the poison murders was financial gain. Unless you believe Klosowski was hired to procure organs for sale, or robbed his victims, then not only has the method of murder changed, but the motivating factor as well.

And, as has been noted before, nothing prevented Chapman from carrying on with his Ripper-style attacks, so why the switch? What do we know of SK's that suggest that they would abandon a working method in favor of an entirely different one? Do you believe it is some type of natural SK evolution that we have similar examples of?

Disorganized to organized = graphic knife attacks on street prostitutes to slow poison murders of his domestic partners in his home?

JM

The second issue is covered in a previous response. As for financial gain, that is a matter of outside entities (i.e. insurance companies ) responding to the death of the client. It could just as easily be bonus for George. This need not be a concious perception within the mind of George, so much as the fulfillment of a contractual obligation on the part of the insurance company. What is the state of evidence on the assertion of financial gain? thank you for participating, Respectfully Dave.

[jmenges]

Hi Dave,

Two things,

It appears that a motive for the poison murders was financial gain. Unless you believe Klosowski was hired to procure organs for sale, or robbed his victims, then not only has the method of murder changed, but the motivating factor as well.

And, as has been noted before, nothing prevented Chapman from carrying on with his Ripper-style attacks, so why the switch? What do we know of SK's that suggest that they would abandon a working method in favor of an entirely different one? Do you believe it is some type of natural SK evolution that we have similar examples of?

Disorganized to organized = graphic knife attacks on street prostitutes to slow poison murders of his domestic partners in his home?

JM

[protohistorian]

And that puts him on the same level as the rest of the suspects.

c.d.

Not quite C.D. we know Chapman was a serial murderer and that is something different from say lewis carrol the serial writer of absudities or walter Sickert the serial painter of seascapes. We have an established pathology that strongly intimates there are more bodies. Thanks for Responding

[protohistorian]

Hi Proto,

OK, here's one. There is no evidence he commited any of the Whitechapel murders.

Roy

Agreed. I am thinking however that he was known to murder individuals, and research since the JtR indicates that for serials this behavior rarely starts as fully developed. It is most probable that whoever JtR was, he committed more lethal crimes. Inversely, as we know chapman murdered, and had hid neck streched for the effort, we might ask ourself's about the not so readily visible aspects of his pathology. As for evidence specifically, we our over 6 generations away from the crimes and have no way of discerning what has been lost or destroyed, or even where surviving information in the possession of private individuals might be. I would submit, that all the hard work of ripperologists before us seems to point strongly towards this case being difficult to solve based on "evidence" per se. I submit however that we know about serials than any previous generation, and what we know indicates chapman has earlier victims. Thank You Roy

[c.d.]

Hi Proto,

OK, here's one. There is no evidence he commited any of the Whitechapel murders.

Roy

And that puts him on the same level as the rest of the suspects.

c.d.

[Roy Corduroy]

Hi Proto,

OK, here's one. There is no evidence he commited any of the Whitechapel murders.

Roy

[protohistorian]

I would like to try a thought experiment, using the well versed minds at this forum as a sounding board. The premis of this exercise is that George Chapman is suspect. I would like for the you guys to raise objections to his canidacy and I want to see if my understanding of serials, people, and the case would explain your objections. This is not a fact base excrcise, but obviously we cannot ignore facts. My intent is not to cnvert people to my way of thinking ( God help Us if that were possible) but rather to see if If this strong hunch I possess bears up to scrutiny. I thank you all in advance..., now have at me.