George or Jack

[Michael W Richards]

One thing about George....by showing up at the police station Monday after the Inquiry closed, he avoided being seen by any other witness related to the Kelly murder. That's Sarah....Mary Ann, Elizabeth, ...all witnesses that by vantage point were valuable stories in this investigation.

Heres one for you, just occurred to me now...what if George was a Pimp and he was there ensuring that Mary Ann and maybe Elizabeth were working.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby,

Here's a fairly extreme possibility to consider: Could Hutch, about whom we know very little, apart from the fact he was described as being of "military appearance", have been blotchy?

Naa. ive heard that before. Timings not right-I doubt hutch would have lingered around after he killed her.

Also, blotchy while described as short just like waiting man/hutch-but had a very distinctive look. I would have thought Abberline or someone would have picked up on it.

[John G]

Hi keffins
Welcome. Hutch was described by Sarah Lewis as short. Pipeman was tall. I doubt hutch was piepman.

Besides, postmortem type serial killers always work alone.

Hi Abby,

Here's a fairly extreme possibility to consider: Could Hutch, about whom we know very little, apart from the fact he was described as being of "military appearance", have been blotchy?

[Abby Normal]

Not sure it was Blotchy. I believe he had already left, or would have joined in with MJK's singing "A flower I plucked" or be heard laughing/talking loudly.
And as she was heard singing for a while, I would have thought he'd have told her to be quiet after 10 mins or so?
Also, if he'd passed out on the bed, i don't believe he would be in any mood when awaking with a hangover to commit a frenzied murder.
GH could well be a lookout for a man who entered as the lights went out. Or GH knew MJK well, had visited her before and knew how to access the locked room whilst she was asleep.

Hi Keffins

Not sure it was Blotchy. I believe he had already left, or would have joined in with MJK's singing "A flower I plucked" or be heard laughing/talking loudly.
And as she was heard singing for a while, I would have thought he'd have told her to be quiet after 10 mins or so?
Also, if he'd passed out on the bed, i don't believe he would be in any mood when awaking with a hangover to commit a frenzied murder.

Blotchy was silent when Cox saw them and may have trying to be inconspicous for any number of reasons-so doubt he would be noisy or sing with her!! if he was the ripper, and I think there is a good chance he was he may have been waiting for the court to die down and or Mary getting more drunk/pass out before he went for the kill. which may explain the apparent length of time he was with her.
Blotchy was the last legit suspect seen with Mary that evening-and no I don't believe Hutchs Aman story suspect for one second.

GH could well be a lookout for a man who entered as the lights went out. Or GH knew MJK well, had visited her before and knew how to access the locked room whilst she was asleep

He wasn't a look out. he was a "friend" of Marys who (if blotchy was the ripper) was probably looking for a place to crash and or hook up with her. I think he realized she was already preoccupied in her room and was waiting for blotchy to leave. If blotchy wasn't her killer then I think theres a slighty better chance hutch was her killer. and he came back after waiting to see that blotchy had left before entering her room.

so I guess Ive played my hand that my favored suspects are Hutch and Blotchy-Ive got them ranked 1 and 1 A on my list!

[keffins]

Not sure it was Blotchy. I believe he had already left, or would have joined in with MJK's singing "A flower I plucked" or be heard laughing/talking loudly.
And as she was heard singing for a while, I would have thought he'd have told her to be quiet after 10 mins or so?
Also, if he'd passed out on the bed, i don't believe he would be in any mood when awaking with a hangover to commit a frenzied murder.
GH could well be a lookout for a man who entered as the lights went out. Or GH knew MJK well, had visited her before and knew how to access the locked room whilst she was asleep.

[Michael W Richards]

Or maybe he waited until he could no longer hear MJK singing..?

Kidding aside, there is legitimate suspicion about someone seen essentially spying on the courtyard, long after the lights in room 13 had been dimmed as well.

The implication here is that he was "looking out" for someone already in the room, not someone who might arrive, and as far as we know, Blotchy might still be in there.

[keffins]

Or maybe he waited until he could no longer hear MJK singing..?

[Michael W Richards]

Dismissing George as a possible accomplice is unwise considering that this murder prompted, before George came forward, a Pardon for Accomplices. Its likely that the officers learned of Wideawake that Friday or early Saturday, and responded quickly with a pardon offer Saturday afternoon.

There is no reason to assume that this offer wasn't made due to the wideawake hat sighting, and no reason to assume the officers didn't feel the offer was warranted by the known evidence.

If you stop looking for the same people at every murder site....ie..looking for George among the Schwartz alledged attendees....you might enjoy a better path to the truth.

The ONLY truth in these murders is that there isn't a shred of known evidence linking any of the crimes with any one man for any one murder, let alone one man for all 5.

They are all unsolved and linked only by opinions.

Meaning...there may well have been 1 or more men involved in all of them , or any individual murder.

[Joshua Rogan]

Hi Keffins,
For me, the lookout theory is a non-starter. Schwartz, the only source we have for Pipeman, says he followed Broad Shouldered man down the length of Berner Street to the gateway where he met and accosted Stride. Yet Pipeman was apparently already hanging about in a doorway well beyond the gateway, so it's difficult to see how they could be in cahoots.
Likewise, I've never been able to fathom what need a killer in a private dwelling down a narrow court would have for a lookout.

[Abby Normal]

Hi keffins
Welcome. Hutch was described by Sarah Lewis as short. Pipeman was tall. I doubt hutch was piepman.

Besides, postmortem type serial killers always work alone.

Oh and yes, out of all the suspects, I think hutch was most likely to be jack, if not him then blotchy.

[Abby Normal]

Hi everyone. Quick thought...

Schwartz stated he thought a man with a pipe watched Stride being attacked and followed him for a while after the Lipsky shout.

GH stated he stood across from Millers Court watching.

Could GH possibly be a look out, JTR being two people?

Hi keffins
Welcome. Hutch was described by Sarah Lewis as short. Pipeman was tall. I doubt hutch was piepman.

Besides, postmortem type serial killers always work alone.

[Michael W Richards]

My money is on George Hutchinson being a possible lookout, who only came forward when he realized he'd been spotted by someone. His story would have been relevant, and the information within it important, so the wait for almost 4 days before presenting it doesn't marry well with his other claim that they knew each other and were friends. Like Carrie Maxwells story, although she jumped at the opportunity to offer her two cents.

I think its possible George knew what happened in that room, and maybe who probably did the deed, but heroes are hard to come by and people rarely admit to being less than one after the fact.

Some of these witnesses lead us all down lanes we needn't travel, but I think George is worth following..although not as the knife man.

[keffins]

Witness?

Hi everyone. Quick thought...

Schwartz stated he thought a man with a pipe watched Stride being attacked and followed him for a while after the Lipsky shout.

GH stated he stood across from Millers Court watching.

Could GH possibly be a look out, JTR being two people?

[Wickerman]

If I was paying a visit to a prostitute and I found her brutally murdered would I report it to the police I doubt it...

Mary Kelly is an acquaintance isn't she?, you've known her for the last three years. Why the need to assume you are calling on her as a client, and not as a friend?
Unrelated people did share accommodations, in this case you may have just needed a bed for the night, you call on her to ask if she can oblige..

[Wickerman]

Great post, Jon. For once, we're in agreement

Happy to hear it Sally.
Mighty Oaks from small acorns grow...


In all honesty though, we could ask the same questions about others, like McCarthy?
- Was he the killer?
- Was he guilty of anything? (he was a local 'tough')
- Did he lie about anything? (like, her rent arrears?)


Re: Hutchinson.

I personally don’t see why he isn’t a viable suspect – although I’m fully cognisant of other possibilities to account for his behaviour. Why not? He’s as good as several other suspects that come to mind – including Barnett, since he at least had a verifiable alibi – and better than some.

Perhaps to clear the waters a little...
For my part, I have never claimed he wasn't a viable suspect. The list of viable suspects is potentially endless, of course he is among them.
To go from viable to likely is a major hurdle, and requires more than the poorly created arguments we see thrown at Hutchinson.

Every argument used against him is a negative argument, and by that I mean that he is suspected due to our lack of information not, due to a positive argument, where we 'know' he did or said something wrong.

WE (you, me & every living soul) have not yet shown any proof he actually told ONE lie, about ANYTHING.
All, is supposition, and we can invent arguments based on supposition against anyone.

That is the basis for my objections.