Why did he lied?

[Fleetwood Mac]

this guy was seen after 3am, i'm pretty sure he was, so yet again GH was able to slot himself into a quiet period of time between 2 and 3am,

i very much doubt that MJK was still out on the streets searching for another customer at this very late hour.... 3am just seems far too late.

Seeing as Blotchy Head had long since stripped the poor girl bare, I doubt it too.

[Wickerman]

this guy was seen after 3am, i'm pretty sure he was,...

Well to be fare Malcolm, Sarah Lewis had passed the man and arrived in Millers Court by 2:30am, Kennedy suggested it was 3:00am when she saw him.

Stated times are our cross to bear, if you remember the Stride case, Edward Spooner who came running to the yard from Fairclough St. after Stride's body was found, stated he felt sure, "I believe it was twenty-five minutes to one o'clock when I arrived in the yard."

He was a clear half-hour out, yet we don't dismiss him or question his honesty.
The local populace were not always sure of the time, but perhaps they felt obligated to appear to know when questioned by police. The difference of 2:30 - 3:00 am between Lewis & Kennedy is of no serious consequence.

i very much doubt that MJK was still out on the streets searching for another customer at this very late hour.... 3am just seems far too late.

That might depend on how much rent you owe?

Regards, Jon S.

[Abby Normal]

Seeing as Blotchy Head had long since stripped the poor girl bare, I doubt it too.

Hi FM
The more i think about it, the more I think you may be right. If you beleive Hutch lied about A-man (I think the probability is high) but not the murderer the more I think that Blotchy has to be our man. he was the last to bee seen with MK. Maybe we should be looking for a fair skinned/haired culprit ala lawendes man and Ada Wilson as opposed to a brown haired man.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi FM
The more i think about it, the more I think you may be right. If you beleive Hutch lied about A-man (I think the probability is high) but not the murderer the more I think that Blotchy has to be our man. he was the last to bee seen with MK. Maybe we should be looking for a fair skinned/haired culprit ala lawendes man and Ada Wilson as opposed to a brown haired man.

Not only that, Abby, but the blotchy fella was in there with a quart of ale, meaning he wasn't going anywhere in a hurry. If they're after a quick 5 minutes then why not just go round the corner and then Mary could have moved onto the next punter.

To me, the attraction for Mary was being paid for the bed for the night. That's really the only thing she gains from going to her hovel that she can't get on the street.

[Morgana LeFay]

I agree, Abby. Odds are that him and Hutchinson were the lasts persons seen outside Miller's Court, he's the best suspect. As others have said, can't see Mary going for more clients at that hour.
Hutchinson still bothers me though: given Lewis testimony, I think is pretty safe to say he was really was there....weird, to think of 2 men loitering about just there in same night. So, it was too risky for him to go the police if he was just an attention seeker, having being there. And there's the thing that he really doesn't say why he was there.

[Malcolm X]

Well to be fare Malcolm, Sarah Lewis had passed the man and arrived in Millers Court by 2:30am, Kennedy suggested it was 3:00am when she saw him.

Stated times are our cross to bear, if you remember the Stride case, Edward Spooner who came running to the yard from Fairclough St. after Stride's body was found, stated he felt sure, "I believe it was twenty-five minutes to one o'clock when I arrived in the yard."

He was a clear half-hour out, yet we don't dismiss him or question his honesty.
The local populace were not always sure of the time, but perhaps they felt obligated to appear to know when questioned by police. The difference of 2:30 - 3:00 am between Lewis & Kennedy is of no serious consequence.




That might depend on how much rent you owe?

Regards, Jon S.

No not quite, Sarah saw GH at about 2.30 am, but Kennedy saw a smarter man talking to 2 women at after 3am, NOW this later sighting is the one that seems wrong to me, this smarter man does not look like GH, he's looking more like a tamed down version of LA DE DA, very tamed down

if GH was there, then he has got 2-3am sussed out, dont forget that he stated that he heard the clock chime at 3am when he left.

but i'm not so sure about GH any more, because it seems like he's made up his story, to suit a quiet period of time during that everning WHEN THE STREETS WERE DEAD....e.g he has to be long gone by 3am, because that's when the next sighting of MJK is, even if it does seem wrong/ not MJK, or even back at 2.30am

but....
1... S Lewis never said that it wasn't GH that she saw, plus; why did GH come forward if there was a strong possibility that she might say, ``that wasn't the guy outside``
2....BLOTCHY FACE seems too early to me, plus seen very well, but as i've said many times, been seen well by this useless bunch means nothing!

i dont know what to think right now

[Malcolm X]

I agree, Abby. Odds are that him and Hutchinson were the lasts persons seen outside Miller's Court, he's the best suspect. As others have said, can't see Mary going for more clients at that hour.
Hutchinson still bothers me though: given Lewis testimony, I think is pretty safe to say he was really was there....weird, to think of 2 men loitering about just there in same night. So, it was too risky for him to go the police if he was just an attention seeker, having being there. And there's the thing that he really doesn't say why he was there.

to me it seems unlikely that she would've gone out again after 3am, plus it seems to me that he was there....... but only just !

now, if he was indeed there then he probably is JTR, because then everything makes sense.

but if he wasn't there, then you can forget LA DE DA, we're Screwed!
most likely suspect will be either BLOTCHY FACE or just about anyone that looks like JOE BARNETT!

[Simon Wood]

Hi Malcolm X,

Are you certain the streets were dead?

Between 29th March and 15th November 1888 the Commercial Street tramway was under construction.

Regards,

Simon

[Fleetwood Mac]

2....BLOTCHY FACE seems too early to me, plus seen very well, but as i've said many times, been seen well by this useless bunch means nothing!

Blotchy is only too early when you assume he was in there for a 10 minute spell.

But:

1) He is equipped with a quart of ale, suggesting the two of them are about to have a drink before the entertainment begins.

2) If he is only there for a 10 minute prostitute/punter exchange, then why does he have a quart of ale?

3) Why exactly would Mary take someone back to her hovel? Presumably money is the driving force as she is soliciting. If money is the driving force, then why not just go round the corner; what is in her home that gives her greater bargaining power to increase her cash receipt? A bed for the night.

[Malcolm X]

Hi Malcolm X,

Are you certain the streets were dead?

Between 29th March and 15th November 1888 the Commercial Street tramway was under construction.

Regards,

Simon

I doubt that workers were around at 2 to 3am

[Malcolm X]

Blotchy is only too early when you assume he was in there for a 10 minute spell.

But:

1) He is equipped with a quart of ale, suggesting the two of them are about to have a drink before the entertainment begins.

2) If he is only there for a 10 minute prostitute/punter exchange, then why does he have a quart of ale?

3) Why exactly would Mary take someone back to her hovel? Presumably money is the driving force as she is soliciting. If money is the driving force, then why not just go round the corner; what is in her home that gives her greater bargaining power to increase her cash receipt? A bed for the night.

yes i know what you're saying, but this seems too early for a 4am scream of ``oh murder``, but it could be true i suppose, the thing i doubt the most is her going out again at 3am, especially if it's cold and wet and she's got a hangover.

it's most likely that she stopped singing at 1am, with him still there, both pretty drunk, what happened next could be anything, but she was murdered whilst in bed awake and watching her killer, or suddenly woken up.... either by blotchy face getting ready to leave, or someone breaking in, LA DE DA does not figure in any of this

so yes BLOTCHY FACE could easily have killed her, but definitely not Pipeman.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Malcolm X,

"Gangs of navvies descended on Whitechapel and Spitalfields and work commenced on digging up the entire length of Commercial Street and laying track. The work continued day and night until completion in November 1888."

Regards,

Simon

[Morgana LeFay]

Could the doctors have known if Mary Kelly had sex before being murdered? If not....well, Blotchy is a very weird character then. What kind of client doesn't get what he has paid for?

[Stephen Thomas]

"Gangs of navvies descended on Whitechapel and Spitalfields and work commenced on digging up the entire length of Commercial Street and laying track. The work continued day and night until completion in November 1888."

Ah, so pickaxe weilding Irish navvies would have been shouting 'Ello darlin' to Kelly as she staggered down Commercial Street at 2am to get her fish supper.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stephen,

Quite possibly. It all depends on whether or not you believe the GH story.

Regards,

Simon