Why did he lied?

[lynn cates]

right

Hello Richard.

"Instead of being so negative, we should do a turn about, and actually believe what he said, and ask what this would imply."

Excellent point.

Cheers.
LC

[Morgana LeFay]

My problems with Astrakhan man? No one else saw him. And was for sure a striking character for Whitechapel. And of course, so much details.

[richardnunweek]

Hello Lynn.
The trouble with all of us[ without exception] is we initially educated ourselves on this subject from the first book we read, and that along with [ in my case] countless books since.
We have all in our suspicious minds formed opinions, which have remained imprinted ever since.
Bob Hinton's ''From Hell'' was a very good book, and turned many a head, but despite it being ''pure speculation'' cast a giant shadow over the witness Hutchinson's honesty, and turned a strange encounter, into ''The lying George''.
It has come down to what is, either not in a book on the subject, or from 1888 newspapers, could not have happened.
All oral History is dismissed.
Any point that only appears in one edition , has to be of non importance,
Without sounding ''sour grapes'' points like clothing worn on the eve of the 8th by Kelly, and that implication.
The burning of the velvet jacket and bonnet[ Mrs Harveys] because of being bloodstained.
The polices view that the Kelly's murder was committed in daylight.
All this is never discussed, simply because it is not in any previous commercial book, and the majority have never come across.
We should all remember that all authors past and present, have researched from newspaper archives, and not every aspect of this case ever appeared in print, leaving oral history a distinct possibility that would be foolish to dismiss,
especially if it has hallmarks of truth.
Regards Richard.

[Malcolm X]

Hello Richard.

"Instead of being so negative, we should do a turn about, and actually believe what he said, and ask what this would imply."

Excellent point.

Cheers.
LC

i'm not really a GH fanboy, it's more like i'm trying to figure out what's going on with him.

1.... GH could indeed be telling the truth, to understand this you really need to take a close look at ``unexplained mysteries``and keep your mind open.

2....but i have to say that all my ``neutral thinking``still points to him being JTR

No one else saw LA DE DA, of course they didn't, because for JTRs lie to work, there must have been nobody else around at that time of the night in Dorset st, finally, do you dress the same every day!

GH stalks MJK as a killer would, either to break in later on, or to wait for her to come out again, it is very spooky how well he's done this, he has also inserted himself into this case just like a modern serial killer might do, again almost perfectly.

unfortunately he has also made himself look very suspicious doing so, there are glaring mistakes that make you think, ``this guy is squirming like a worm on a hook``, especially his excuses for not turning up till 2 days later.

unfortunately if he was there his description would feel far more realistic, its basically too good and over embellished, but in his description, he's also revealing that he's a stalker too.

1..... he's returning from Romford (cruising Whitechapel looking for a victim)
2..... he's waiting way too long outside MJK, very odd, this is highly suspicious behaviour from a young man, if you saw this today you'd probably call the police, it reminds me of that bloke that was infactuated with JILL DANDO
3..... he leaves this location but doesn't bed down anywhere, walks the streets until Victoria Holmes opens.... i very much doubt it, he'd be walking bloody miles, his legs would be killing him..... SORRY NO WAY !

he thus has no Alibi for 3am onwards, how convenient.....Victoria Homes was closed, didn't he realise that he was running out of time before he left Romford..... i very much doubt that GH gives two sods about the home being closed, because this GH loves being out after 2am in the soaking rain, after all; that's why he waited outside for an hour; he couldn't care less, this GH was intending to stay out all night long if he had to..... this is the sort of guy that would still be out on the streets at say 6 to 7am..... uuum a bit like Hanbury st, or somewhere like that

no residents saw anything major out on the streets between 2 and 3am, only him, but nothing major to refute his story, so the window of opportunity for him was there, he would have found this out at the inquest, he would also have found out that he was seen too...... GREAT, HE WAS THERE EXCELLENT, this makes him appear innocent, but only you the reader can decide if he's telling the truth, or going to the inquest as JTR, just checking to make sure that everything is ok before going to Abberline.

this is just the start, there's flipping loads of stuff going against him.

yes it's true, there's loads of stuff portraying him as JTR, far more than i've mentioned here, but unfortunately there's loads of stuff that sais he's innocent too..

[lynn cates]

A-Man

Hello Morgana. Well, no one saw him who came forward--at least so far as we know.

Eye for detail? Yes, but I daresay he got one thing wrong--I doubt that was a horseshoe pin he was wearing.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

respondeo quod

Hello Richard. You are quite right. How many have seen the "Times" report from October 2 (if I recall properly) where there was a bit of dismissal of the lone killer hypothesis?

Incidentally, I read Sugden early on and he dismisses my lad, Isenschmid. And so I followed his example. I have since rethought it.

But it is difficult to get away from early training and impressions (I think I feel a Wordsworth poem coming on--heh-heh), as you say.

You are also right about oral accounts--but these must be handled with a good bit of discretion.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

thoughts

Hello Malcolm.

"it's more like I'm trying to figure out what's going on with him."

Now you're talking!

"do you dress the same every day[?]"

Well, the lad pointed out to me by Norma Buddle and Simon Wood ALWAYS wore an astrakhan trimmed coat. He could afford to since he had a good supply of money.

"walks the streets until Victoria Home opens.... I very much doubt it"

And yet John Kelly claimed that both he and Kate did the same on occasion.

Finally, if Christer is right--and I think he is--it was not raining then, not till the next day when MJK was killed.

Cheers.
LC

[Malcolm X]

the thing that stands out most is his description of the bloke, he even sees gloves in his hands/ parcel etc, it's amazing.

it's a stereotypical fully loaded anti-semetic decription that's fixated in his mind, and probably from the tabloids/inquest too.

but is this bloke too suspicious looking, especially with a parcel in his hand, to be invited in by MJK, because my guess is that she would have told this creepy looking guy to clear off.

[lynn cates]

Semitic appearance--from Tyrone

Hello Malcolm. But the bloke in question was an Irishman and, this one in particular, might be thought to look Jewish (whatever that means).

And given MJK knew him, their meeting would have been natural.

Cheers.
LC

[Malcolm X]

Hello Malcolm. But the bloke in question was an Irishman and, this one in particular, might be thought to look Jewish (whatever that means).

And given MJK knew him, their meeting would have been natural.

Cheers.
LC

these two did not greet each other as if they were old friends, plus; i have to say that i have no idea who you are talking about...

he never said JEW that's true, but he didn't need to, he said a foreigner from Petticoat lane.

but if anyone is saying did this guy look like Druitt, then yes he does, he also looks like J.KELLY, a shorter version of Tumblety/ Prince Albert, but he's most like G.Chapman for sure.

[Fleetwood Mac]

At the risk of initiating a ripperological sh!tstorm, I have to say that I am utterly mystified as to why George Hutchinson is considered such a strong suspect by so many. Perhaps I am being dense. Someone please explain.

Best wishes,
Steve.

I think people have to be honest and say:

1) He places himself there at 2.30 in the morning, last person to see her alive (possibly, for the benefit of Richard).

2) He offers a story/account that is open to doubt.

3) Lewis sees someone hanging around outside around the same time. You could take this as corroboration that H was there; personally I do not. Regardless, it's another small piece in the jigsaw.

These points don't make him a decent bet for being JTR, but they make him a decent option when compared with some of the other suspects.

I have heard much flimsier cases regarding some of the favoured suspects.

The real problem with Hutchinson is that we simply don't know much about him, which makes him a sort of dead end in the grand scheme of the puzzle and therefore someone who detracts from the game, which I'm sure everyone enjoys.

He's not my favoured suspect, I don't really have one. I think Swanson's notes make Kosminski a stand out suspect, and I like someone such as Grainger (my preconceived idea of what Jack was like).

No one can deny, surely, that Hutchinson must be someone who is viewed with suspicion. My guess is that he was in it for a few quid, but where's my evidence?

Edited to add: I suppose the thing that goes against H for me is that there are a lot more cranks that attach themselves to case than there are killers.

[Fleetwood Mac]

My problems with Astrakhan man? No one else saw him. And was for sure a striking character for Whitechapel. And of course, so much details.

No one else came forward more like.

I think it's fair to say that the denizens of the East End of London didn't make for good witnesses.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hello Mac.

"The problematic part of the story for me is that he hung around for 3/4 of an hour. I find it hard to accept that he was a concerned citizen prepared to watch over her due to a 'suspicious' man entering her home, only to walk away when said suspicious man is clearly doing far more than a 5 minute love-in."

Used to be a problem for me. But he could be just a nosy fellow.

"The other part I'm struggling with a touch is Mary asking H for money: is this how it worked in those days? H, un unemployed man, needing every penny he could get his hands on, is seen as good for a sub by Mary?"

But this happens even today. Society is still populated with chronic givers and takers.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

If he was nosey, why not have a look through the window.

There certainly are, but presumably with the two of them being friends Mary was well aware that H was on the bones of his arse.

[lynn cates]

One in a Millen

Hello Malcolm. I refer to Francis Millen. His photo and description is on the thread below, post #430.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=179643&highlight=irish#post179643

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

cure for nosiness

Hello Mac.

"If he was nosey, why not have a look through the window?"

Well, it seems to me that should one emerge at that moment, it would be difficult to deny what you are about. Not so further up the court.

Cheers.
LC