Witness statement Dismissed-suspect No. 1?

[Wickerman]

How could Hutchinson have 'identified' MJK if even Barret could only identify her from her ears and eyes?

Just look at the quality of Eddowes been put back together. There are even doubts (although wrong) over one of her photographs in the coffin because she looks so unlike the other photos of her after reassembly.

There is simply no way a reconstruction of MJK could have Hutchinson identify her realistically in her condition.

Her ears were mutilated, it was her hair & eyes.
If that is good enough from Barnett, then it is equally good enough from anyone else.
But he wasn't asked to identify the body as "Mary Kelly", he was taken to the mortuary to confirm the body was the woman he met that morning, there is a difference.
Hutchinson doesn't have to give a clinical identification, all he has to say is "ay, that looks like her, whats left of her".

[Wickerman]

Cheers Jon.

I can't quite believe we were allowed to get away with the suggestion that it may have been the police who organised Hutchinson's Victoria Home 'abode' to fix his sleeping arrangements for as long as they needed him close to hand.

The offer of sequestration for a witness would likely come from Abberline if it was deemed necessary. As the Victoria Home address is at the heading of the voluntary statement to Sgt. Badham, prior to Abberline being notified, then it likely was his true address on that date.
Besides, the Victoria Home is not the kind of place to secure an important witness away from the press & public. Evidence, the subsequent interview Hutchinson gave to the Central News reporter the very next day, which appears to have taken place at that location.

[Batman]

How could Hutchinson have 'identified' MJK if even Barret could only identify her from her ears and eyes?

Just look at the quality of Eddowes been put back together. There are even doubts (although wrong) over one of her photographs in the coffin because she looks so unlike the other photos of her after reassembly.

There is simply no way a reconstruction of MJK could have Hutchinson identify her realistically in her condition.

[Sally]

that interpretation has been shown false.

Wherever his usual place was, it was closed, and the Victoria Home did not close.

I think that's a bit strong Jon. It's hardly been 'shown false'

[Wickerman]

I'd just hate to have to locate and regurgitate that whole argument now.

You did, and it is easy to see why.

[Ben]

You wouldn't have felt it necessary to throw that hint in, if it wasn't for the fact that interpretation has been shown false.

According to you, and perhaps one other person.

According to everyone else, however, the Victoria Home was the place where Hutchinson usually slept prior to introducing himself to the police. Yes, we had a couple of people arguing senselessly and noisily to the contrary recently, but did it topple mainstream thinking on the subject? Nope, it sank without trace, and rightly so.

I'd just hate to have to locate and regurgitate that whole argument now.

We'll see if that becomes a necessity.

All the best,
Ben

[Wickerman]

... Obviously, the Victoria Home was where he "usually" slept prior to his 12th November visit to the station, ....

You wouldn't have felt it necessary to throw that hint in, if it wasn't for the fact that interpretation has been shown false.
A bit of insecurity surfacing Ben?


Wherever his usual place was, it was closed, and the Victoria Home did not close.

[Scott Nelson]

And free morning papers too.

[Ben]

Hi Caz,

I can't envisage too many people kicking off in response to your suggestion, which seems perfectly valid and reasonable. Obviously, the Victoria Home was where he "usually" slept prior to his 12th November visit to the station, but yes, the police could well have subsidized his accommodation there for some time thereafter.

No problem at all.

Regards,
Ben

[caz]

Cheers Jon.

I can't quite believe we were allowed to get away with the suggestion that it may have been the police who organised Hutchinson's Victoria Home 'abode' to fix his sleeping arrangements for as long as they needed him close to hand.

Hope I'm not speaking too soon.

Love,

Caz
X

[Wickerman]

Maybe not, Jon, but Abberline reported that Hutchinson had 'promised to go with an officer tomorrow morning at 11.30. am. to the Shoreditch mortuary to identify the deceased'.

He was considered an important witness, so if he had seen Kelly's well dressed man again while walking round the district that night with the two officers, he could have ended up a vital prosecution witness in court.

How incompetent would the police have looked if they had let him drift off afterwards, with no money for lodgings, and had lost touch with him because he had had to sleep rough or even leave the district?

Of course, it's possible he still had a bob or two for his bed and board, and pretended otherwise when Kelly had tried to borrow sixpence. But whether or not he paid his own way at the Victoria Home that night, the police would have wanted him where they could find him again, and I would not be a bit surprised if he also 'promised' to reside at that particular establishment until further notice.

Love,

Caz
X

No need to explain Caz, your point is a perfectly valid one.

We only have to look at Lawende, a valuable witness who was sequestered away from press & public for a time.
As valid as your point is, Hutchinson is not going to know this beforehand, which is what Sir John alluded to in his reply to you. It was this reply that I was responding to.

For Sir John's suggestion to be valid ie; intentionally lying to get a bed for the night, Hutchinson would have to know before he walked into Commercial St. station, that offering the police a story they can't refuse will get him free bed and board.
Therefore, implied in this suggestion is that Hutchinson believed it was police policy, which is hardly tenable.

Sorry for the confusion, nice to see you posting again.

[caz]

Maybe not, Jon, but Abberline reported that Hutchinson had 'promised to go with an officer tomorrow morning at 11.30. am. to the Shoreditch mortuary to identify the deceased'.

He was considered an important witness, so if he had seen Kelly's well dressed man again while walking round the district that night with the two officers, he could have ended up a vital prosecution witness in court.

How incompetent would the police have looked if they had let him drift off afterwards, with no money for lodgings, and had lost touch with him because he had had to sleep rough or even leave the district?

Of course, it's possible he still had a bob or two for his bed and board, and pretended otherwise when Kelly had tried to borrow sixpence. But whether or not he paid his own way at the Victoria Home that night, the police would have wanted him where they could find him again, and I would not be a bit surprised if he also 'promised' to reside at that particular establishment until further notice.

Love,

Caz
X

[Wickerman]

I doubt there was a policy for free bed & board for every homeless witness.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

So this also raise the possibility that Hutch lied and just wanted a roof for a couple of nights?

That would explain him waiting after the inquest.

[caz]

Hi All,

It occurs to me that because Hutchinson was considered an important witness at the time of making his statement, the police would have secured the bed for him at the Victoria Home from that night to make sure he was in easy reach for as long as he was needed. He was apparently broke and out of work, so whether he 'usually' slept there or at some other lodging house, there could be no guarantees about his whereabouts when the police were done with him for the night unless they made it their business to secure him a temporary 'fixed abode' for the immediate future.

By the time the statement was formally written up, the witness had an 'official' and reasonably respectable place of residence where he could be contacted - the Victoria Home Commercial Street.

It would hardly have been good practice to allow potentially important witnesses to be 'of no fixed abode' - or to describe them as such. And that's what a penniless witness like Hutchinson would effectively have been when coming forward.

Love,

Caz
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