Innocent, By George!

[DVV]

You must assume everyone was talking about it. Why?

Indeed. And Dorset Street was also crowdy.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Indeed. And Dorset Street was also crowdy.

Any chance you can answer the question in a matter of fact fashion, or is this going to turn into a less than attractive game of hide and seek?

[DVV]

Still joking ?

[Monty]

Hi Monty



Because he was not deaf.

All the best

And how do you know this David?

Monty

[DVV]

Because he heard Kelly saying "All right my dear, come along..."

Hugs

[Lechmere]

Good Michael – Abberline said this which implies Hutchinson came in after the inquest:
I have interrogated him this evening and I am of opinion his statement is true.
...and don’ forget I produced two press reports that said he appeared after the inquest!

Abby Normal
There are many reasons why a witness may not have come forward early enough to be included in the inquest. Don’t forget the body was found on Friday and the inquest was on Monday. Any delay or reticence in coming forward would mean that the witness was too late. There are many potential reasons why someone may be reticent about coming forward. A common one is that people generally don’t want to ‘get involved’ with the police. Also an inquest witness would lose a day’s pay and the going rate for an inquest witness was just one shilling! The fee was not negotiable and in itself led to an outcry.
The issue of inquest witness fees and the outcry it caused in the East End was covered in an article in the Lloyd’s Weekly Newspaper on 30th September.

Then there is this argument that Hutchinson may have been in the crowd outside Shoreditch Town Hall and seen Lewis go in or out and this alone may have promoted him to come forward.
This would mean that he didn’t bother to go and try to find work on the Monday – which seems to me to be a reckless thing for a casual worker to do.
It would also rely on him recognising Lewis from a brief glimpse in the dark on Friday morning. Bear in mind she will probably have turned up to the inquest in her ‘Sunday best’.

We can’t know Hutchinson’s mental processes but it would not exactly be remarkable if once he took the plunge and ‘got involved’ then his tongue ran away with him and his head swelled. And as has been pointed out maybe he realised there was money to be made.

There is a faction on these boards that thinks that because criminal investigation was relatively speaking in its infancy, the police would never have treated a volunteer witness as a suspect. We know that the three butchers on Winthrop Street were treated as suspects despite the fact that they looked after a PCs cape while he was on the beat and they came forward to help when Polly Nichol’s body was discovered.
While the police’s experience of serial killing was slim, they had experience of crime and criminals sometimes come forward as witnesses to their own crime. This is not a ‘serial killer exclusive’ trait as some seem to suggest.

Anyway this case is notorious for the East End population seeing and hearing nothing when a violent murder takes place on their doorsteps. Affecting to hear and see nothing anyway. The police had a hard time getting any information out of the East End population about anything – and that clearly also went for these murders.

Fleetwood Mac
But then why didn't he do this after any of the other murders?Because for this murder and this murder only he completely changed his MO in many different ways. Apparently.

DVV
Maybe he was deaf and saw her lips move and read them. Ha! You never thought of that did you?

[The Good Michael]

Lechmere,

Thanks. I've seen newspaper reports about that, but I haven't seen anything official. I've seen newspaper reports that say the opposite. Where is something official that says the inquest ended at 5 pm (for example) and Hutch came in at 8 pm? This kind of thing I've never seen, but it's taken for granted and all authors use it as a baseline. I just want to see the exact words.

Cheers,

Mike

[Monty]

Because he heard Kelly saying "All right my dear, come along..."

Hugs

Heh heh great answer David.

Doesn't mean he knew she had been murdered.


Monty

[DVV]

Then why looking for a policeman on Sunday morning ?

Amitiés

[Monty]

He needed to know the time.

Monty

[DVV]

I suspect some people are able to theorize about this, Monty.
Would you publish them ?

[Sister Hyde]

Maybe his car had been taken to the pound

[Monty]

No David, I wouldn't.

Monty

[Abby Normal]

If Hutchinson was the killer and he read the description in the papers, he wouldn't have believed his luck that the description was so vague. Why on earth would he want to present himself to the police based on that?

The only half decent explanation to me is that he was one of those who wanted to get involved in the investigation like a few others e.g. Ian Huntley. But then why didn't he do this after any of the other murders?

Just out of curiosity, has anyone placed Hutchinson in Whitechapel prior to coming forward? The Victoria home owners? Perhaps he was in Romford a few days more than he claimed, business didn't come his way, and on returning to the East End went for a pint, read the paper and thought here we go - could be a few quid in this.

I am absolutely amazed that Hutchinson, a man who could have been in the vicinity, gets far more in the way of air space than a man who was actually in her room on the night of the murder, particularly so when you discount Hutchinson no one else saw her that night - either leaving her room or in the streets - Blotchy is streets ahead of Hutchinson as a suspect!

Hi FM
I have often said blotchy should be a very valid suspect. I cant but help not notice that Lawendes man was fair haired as was the man seen in by Fiddymont, as was pipeman and the man who attacked ada wilson. But of course this goes against the conventional wisdom that JtR was dark or brown haired.

But of course since Hutch's story, Blotchy was probably dropped a peg or two because Hutch's A-man would then have been the last man seen with MK that night. But good point.

[Rubyretro]

I've said it before, I can't remember the last time I heard a murder discussed down the pub, so in all probability he wouldn't have heard about it there. That leaves newspapers. Perhaps he didn't buy them that often. In this age of information available from all angles, all sorts completely pass by me so I have no problem in believing that Hutchinson didn't know anything about it for a few days.

I'd say it's 50/50.

Fleetwood, I feel safe in saying that it was impossible for Hutchinson not to have heard about the murders on Friday :
-according to him he went to the Victoria Home on Friday morning. During the
afternoon and evening, talk at the Home must have been of little else but the Kelly murder.
-people were flooding into the East End and concregating near Dorset Street
(cordoned off ?) as news of the murders spread, and the Victoria Home was just a couple of roads up. There must have been crowds of people in the
street outside the Home talking about the murder;
-there was a heavy Police presence in the area
-It is fair to say that a good many of the sightseers would have ended up in the pubs. Once again talk would have been of little else -especially since Mary was well known in these pubs
-extra newspapers were printed to cope with the interest in the murder, and it is a fair bet that the newspaper vendors shouted their wares on the street.

In addition to that, a newspaper article which I quoted on the 'wrong night' thread, has Hutch describing the A-man incident and finishing with 'I heard
about the murder later..' (but did not go to the Police) which the paper intimates was for a mysterious reason which they were 'not at liberty to divulge'; nothing as simple as 'I was at work'.

Personally, I do not think that Blotchy is the best candidate for the murderer
of Mary Kelly : his attitude as described by witnesses, the singing Kelly, is all at odds with the quiet, sneaky, kill-'em-quick methods of JTR. The timing is
too early.

As far as I'm aware, the Police circulated a description of A Man as the best
suspect -not Blotchy, who should have been pretty easy to identify from his
unusual description, and could have been 'looked over' by Mrs Cox.

I'm very suprised that those that cry 'Police would heve checked..'
don't evoke their famous 'missing records' theory, when it comes to Blotchy..