You are Hutchinson and you're in trouble....

[Observer]

HaHa what a laugh, look at the title of the thread. "You are Hutchinson". Trouble is you're not are you?

Observer

[c.d.]

HaHa what a laugh, look at the title of the thread. "You are Hutchinson". Trouble is you're not are you?

Observer

But don't we also say what we think Jack would do or not do in a given situation? I fail to see the difference.

c.d.

[Observer]

But don't we also say what we think Jack would do or not do in a given situation? I fail to see the difference.

c.d.

Hi c.d. Speculation fine, after all the Casebook forum's are a little bit of light relief from the tedium of every day living. It's when certain posters state the following

Surely Hutchinson coming forward suggests it wasn't him.

If he did it.....then he'd be thinking: "go to the police and if someone saw me going into the room then I'm well and truly goosed".

If he didn't do it....then he'd be thinking: "go to the police and there ain't a problem because I didn't go in the room - I didn't kill her - so there's no way I can get fingered for this".

The evidence doesn't point to H....nor does logic.

A little bit more than speculation here, in effect we are being treated to George Hutchinson's inner thoughts over the weekend leading up to his eventual attendance at Commercial Sreet police station on Moday the 12th November. As if that was not enough in answer to your question,

" But don't we also say what we think Jack would do or not do in a given situation?"

The self same poster who seems to be able to predict Hutchinson's thoughts, posted this of JTR

It seems a big risk to kill in an area where he knew lots of people were nearby...but we don't know the way his mind worked.

all the best

Observer

[The Good Michael]

Observer,

I agree. It's one thing to speculate about what one would do oneself, and another to transfer that to a suspect, even an unlikely one.

Mike

[Adam Went]

Hey Fleetwood,

To answer your question, well it's not necessarily the fear of being caught by the police, but the realisation that if your name somehow comes up as a suspect, which has often happened in cases in the past by accident, then the police check into it and see that you've disappeared pretty damn quick after the fact, it's fair to say that they would want to be asking you a few questions, and the whole house of cards can come tumbling down from there very easily.

As a reasonably contemporary case to JTR, look at what happened to Dr. Crippen. He would have got away with murder if he hadn't taken off on a boat with his mistress at a bad moment. Very common mistake indeed.

Cheers,
Adam.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
If I were Hutchinson, I would be a proud man, for not only would I have risked being a major suspect for the most gruesome murder of the series , by placing myself at the scene, but I would have the satisfaction, [albeit unsuccessfully] of attempting to spot the man accompanied by police officers on the monday night, and posssibly on several more occassions.
I have no doubt that this witness was convinced he saw Kellys killer, and was very honest in his recollections , dispite modern day doubts.
My opinion is although GH saw the man described, he was not kellys killer.
The last person seen with the victim, from an official statement, made to the police , and under oath , was a middle aged man , dressed as a market porter.
That sighting was made by Caroline Maxwell at 845 am on the morning of the 9th November 88, and this being the case ,[ being police precedure throughout its entire history] , would have to be eliminated from enquiries first.
We have no knowledge that this happened, so he would be suspect No 1
Regards Richard.

[Rubyretro]

Hey Fleetwood,

To answer your question, well it's not necessarily the fear of being caught by the police, but the realisation that if your name somehow comes up as a suspect, which has often happened in cases in the past by accident, then the police check into it and see that you've disappeared pretty damn quick after the fact, it's fair to say that they would want to be asking you a few questions, and the whole house of cards can come tumbling down from there very easily.

As a reasonably contemporary case to JTR, look at what happened to Dr. Crippen. He would have got away with murder if he hadn't taken off on a boat with his mistress at a bad moment. Very common mistake indeed.

Cheers,
Adam.

Well, Adam -I absolutely agree with you !!! And I too say 'fight'.

It certainly is a common mistake to flee...and it would be made even worse if
it turned out subsequently that he had already 'disappeared' after Eddowes.

If he had run away after Lewis had seen him, then his description would have been published in the papers as that of the likely murderer. If he had already told other people of his intention to get work in town, then it would look very strange if he left in a hurry after just arriving, particularly if the description matched himself, and he had been standing talking to Mary on the evening she was killed.

He might not have had a wife and kids -but he DID have family ( at least one sister) who would read the papers. He might have done other things (not murder) which could be linked to JtR behaviour, which his family might know of
and come forward about.

I agree that with without forensic evidence, Hutchinson could not be PROVED to be JtR , whether he came forward or not (so he uldn't be hung for coming forward as a witness) -but he at least stood to lose his reputation and place in his family & society if he made it clear that he WAS JtR by
running.

[DVV]

I have no doubt that this witness was convinced he saw Kellys killer, and was very honest in his recollections , dispite modern day doubts.
Regards Richard.

Hi Richard,

doubts re Hutch's veracity aren't solely modern.

Amitiés,
David

[John Winsett]

Hutchinson probably wasn't JTR but all evidence points to him killing Kelly. He was at the scene, he admitting to being there around the time of the murder. No one else has described Kelly being with anyone even remotely looking like Hutchinson's suspect even though dorset street was busy 24/7. Miller's court had one entrance/exit. One witness identified a person standing at the entrance to Miller's Court and it is widely accepted that this was probably Hutchinson. If he was JTR there would have been more killings after Kelly. Did the police verify his "discussion with friends"? Abberline was grasping at straws. Hutchinson went to the police to make sure they continued to think it was a JTR murder. Of course it's always possible he was absolutely truthful but it's doubtful.

[harry]

Hutchinson could have said he followed the couple as far as the corner of Dorset street,from where he observed them stop for a minute outside the court,and then enter.He then could have said he(Hutchinson) continued on down Commercial Street.This might seem more acceptable,and less suspicious than placing himself opposite the court
This would have left the identity of the person seen by Lewis unknown,but not less suspicious,as it might be assumed that the companion of Kelly had only stopped for a short while,and without entering her room.
By admitting his presence at Crossinghams,Hutchinson can then place a Jewish suspect,not only in her room,but in there untill at least 3AM when he said he(Hutchinson) left,and by inference,with no evidence to prove otherwise,untill someone was heard leaving the court at sometime after fiveAM.A plausible the'Other person"alibi.

[Rubyretro]

If he was JTR there would have been more killings after Kelly

The fact that there were no more killings after Kelly rather nails for me the
argument that Hutch WAS JtR !

Imagine -Hutchinson becomes known to the Police as a witness placing himself at MJK's murder scene in extraordinary circumstances. He becomes
'famous' in Whitechapel (and via the papers, further afield to a certain extent) because he is seen marching around with policemen for a few days
trying to spot A Man. He gives interviews to journalists, and I would imagine that everyone in the Victoria Home or his local pubs, would be wanting to hear the details from his own lips. People were probably pointing him out
on the street. Prostitutes were probably gossiping about his story.

He could never risk being spotted anywhere near a Ripper murder site ever again ! He would never get away with inventing another 'innocent' story.
What's more -imagine if he moved elsewhere in the country and there was suddenly a ripper style murder ?

I believe that the JtR murders stopped, because Hutchinson made it impossible for himself to continue.

[Bob Hinton]

Not really.

We seem to be getting a bit tied up with killings after Kelly. As has been proved in modern cases, serial killers can stop killing for lengthy periods of time, I believe in one case 15 years.

Also you are forgetting that there are a myriad of reasons why a serial killer stops killing even if he wants to carry on, the main one being of course he could be dead! There were thousands of ways of dying in London from Typhoid to being run over by a carriage ( in 1892 over 3,500 people were killed in London by being run over, that doesn't include injuries!). He could have left the country, joined the Army or Navy, been murdered and so on.

[KatBradshaw]

Ineresting

I think what I would do, as in me, if I were a seriel killer etc is a bit disturbing to think about.
If I were to put myself in to Hutch's shoes what I would do would be dependant on a number of things.
1. I am the killer and I am of the Ted Bundy strutting nature. In this case I would stick around, suss out the situation and deal with it as need arises. After all, I am brighter than all the stupid police and can explain everything away.
2. I am the killer and I am of a more agitated nature. In this case I may stick around because I am too scared of not knowing what the police do and don't know.
3. I am the killer and I know I have somewhere else to go and my abcense won't cause suspicion, I am off!

[harry]

Hutchinson,if knowing of Maxwell's testimony,had a good reason not to come forward at all.Even if later questioned for some reason,and still offering the same story,he could say he hadn't come forward as he was of the opinion his sighting had nothing to do with Kelly's death,as she was seen with an entirely different person later the same morning.Perhaps he didn't know,but if he did he seemingly disregarded it for some reason.Was it because he (Hutchinson)knew it was false?Without knowing these things we cannot really say what should be done.

As for flight,when would be a good time.Without going back to his lodgings?What about the blood on his person,and any belongings at the Victoria Home?Would absence so soon after the crime be viewed as suspicious and reported?These things had to be considered.In the end ,guilty or not he seems to have made the correct decision.

[Abby Normal]

The fact that there were no more killings after Kelly rather nails for me the
argument that Hutch WAS JtR !

Imagine -Hutchinson becomes known to the Police as a witness placing himself at MJK's murder scene in extraordinary circumstances. He becomes
'famous' in Whitechapel (and via the papers, further afield to a certain extent) because he is seen marching around with policemen for a few days
trying to spot A Man. He gives interviews to journalists, and I would imagine that everyone in the Victoria Home or his local pubs, would be wanting to hear the details from his own lips. People were probably pointing him out
on the street. Prostitutes were probably gossiping about his story.

He could never risk being spotted anywhere near a Ripper murder site ever again ! He would never get away with inventing another 'innocent' story.
What's more -imagine if he moved elsewhere in the country and there was suddenly a ripper style murder ?

I believe that the JtR murders stopped, because Hutchinson made it impossible for himself to continue.

Hi Rubey
I agree that if GH was JtR then after MK perhaps he knew he had to stop for a long time. However, after the cooling out period he may have tried again with McKenzie and perhaps even Francis Coles.

I guess we would need to know where GH was after MK and Mckenzie and francis Coles.