Proof of identity

[Ben]

Hi Observer,

Are you trying to tell me that the police would have doubted his given occupation as that of a groom?

Are you trying to tell me that the police paid five times Hutchinson's salary without knowing what Hutchinson did for a living? And with only Hutchinson's word as to what his occupation was? If so, I'd have to disagree pretty strongly on both counts.

Who's to know, it could well be that he was aware of this arangement before he even entered the police station.

'Ang on.

You're suggesting that Hutchinson knew, before he even entered the police station, that he'd be paid five times his normal salary?

[Observer]

Were there any precedents which suggested to the local populace that the police gave five times the weekly salary to any member of the public, who because they came forward with usefull information, lost work?

Observer

[Ben]

Hi Gareth,

The interesting thing about this discussion is that it appears that somebody got wind of the story and printed it in a single obscure American paper, and the fact that the newspaper article has intriguing parallels to a tale which was told by Reg Hutchinson some 80 years later.

But Reg Hutchinson told a story about his dad being paid off for keeping quiet about spotting Churchill the Ripper in a book that was ultimately discredited by its own author. Dodgy provenance.

The Wheeling Register carried an article headed "Gossip" which included claims about characters involved in the Miller's Court saga that were flatly contradicted by other newspapers. Dodgy provenance.

The dodginess of both sources, coupled with the fact that the signatures don't match, pretty much ennervates any "coincidence" in association with the payment issue, and since the real Hutchinson claimed to be in no regular employment at the time, the question of "salary" is rendered moot.

All the best,
Ben

[Sam Flynn]

At what point did it become apparent to Hutchinson that he was to recieve five times his salary?

Hi Observer,

As I said, it's a matter of secondary importance whether he received 5 pennies or 5 pounds - the crucial point is that we have two accounts, seemingly independent and separated by some 80 years, both of which claim that Hutchinson received that level of recompense.

[Ben]

Were there any precedents which suggested to the local populace that the police gave five times the weekly salary to any member of the public, who because they came forward with usefull information, lost work?

Not as far as I know, Observer, but I can't see how Hutchinson's efforts could possibly have lost him five weeks worth of work.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Ben,

The dodginess of both sources, coupled with the fact that the signatures don't match, pretty much ennervates any "coincidence" in association with the payment issue

See my response to "Observer" above - the details are inconsequential to this discussion. What's yet to be explained satisfactorily is how the Register and Reg Hutchinson came to recount ostensibly the same tale in respect of Hutchinson's reward - irrespective of whether the £5 figure is true, and irrespective of the "dodginess" of the source(s) in question.

and since the real Hutchinson claimed to be in no regular employment at the time, the question of "salary" is rendered moot.

He says in his police statement that he was a groom, now working as a labourer - hence, on average, he'd have expected to earn just over 21/- per week. As I've pointed out, "no regular employment" was hardly unusual for the East End.

[Observer]

Hi Ben

Only a week's worth of salary , they multiplied it five times apparently, as an inducement to come forward. It could well be that it was common knowledge to the local populace. I can't imagine that many people coming forward to take them up on their offer considering the nature of the case

Observer

[Observer]

Hi Sam

Hi Observer,

As I said, it's a matter of secondary importance whether he received 5 pennies or 5 pounds - the crucial point is that we have two accounts, seemingly independent and separated by some 80 years, both of which claim that Hutchinson received that level of recompense.

Which would suggest that there is some truth in the assertion that informers recieved such an inducement

Observer

[Ben]

Hi Gareth,

What's yet to be explained satisfactorily is how the Register and Reg Hutchinson came to recount ostensibly the same tale in respect of Hutchinson's reward

Dodgy accounts and financial incentives are never far removed from eachother, especially in connection with "rewards" and the like. To be honest, I'm surprised that "Was Hutchinson paid off for anything" hasn't been falsely advocated more often than it has. Significantly, the payment was for different reasons in each version. In the Wheeling Register, it was for accompanying detectives round the district (implausible), and in the Reg version, it was suggested that the payment was "hush" money to conceal a pseudo royal-political scandal involving Churchill.

No regular employment isn't unsual for the East End, but if he wasn't on a "salary" at the time, he can't have been paid five times that non-salary.

Regards,
Ben

[Ben]

Hi Observer,

Only a week's worth of salary , they multiplied it five times apparently, as an inducement to come forward.

That's an inducement for liars and frauds to come forward and get paid off for giving false information and derailing the investigation in the process. If that strategy was advocated by police, you'd have hoards and hoards of false witnesses bombarding the police and requesting "five tmes their normal salary" in exchange for information that can't be proven to be bogus but almost certainly is.

Ben

[Bob Hinton]

For Richard

Re Richards post No 86.

Having said that, what research would be possible to prove that GWTH was GH, as both sources father/son are deseased.
The fact is unless documents come to light, or more obscure press reports are revealed, we are left with oral history, and a long gone elusive Radio broadcast, which even if was ever traced, would not confirm anything, that is to everyones satisfaction.

Ah but therein lies the rub Nunners old son. That’s where the days and months of searching through records, following up leads, suffering triumph and disaster come into the picture. If you want to push your point you’ve just got to start looking for the elusive evidence.

For example if I was in your shoes the first thing I would do is to contact Melvyn Fairclough and get the full story from him. Ask him for his original notes and or tape recordings. Pick his brains get every last bit of information out of him.

Next did Reg have any brothers and sisters? If so find them, trace every last descendent of GWTH. Ask Neal Shelden for help he’s a genius at doing this sort of thing. You’ve already got some of the posters on this thread giving you a lot of census information about GWTH – that’s a good start.

The fact is Nunners if you want documents to come to light it’s up to you to shine a torch on them.

Good Luck!

[Observer]

Hi Ben

But would they, considering the nature of the case? I certainly wouldn't, even if I was hungry and out of work. Also one would have to be pretty convincing to recieve the inducement. It could well be that many tried but were shown the door as chancers.

Observer

[Ben]

But would they, considering the nature of the case?

Oh like a moth to a lightbulb, Observer.

All they had to do was invent a story that couldn't be disproven or verified, complete with an invented description, and just wait for the money to roll in. And if loads of hungry, desperate, unemployed people did that...

Ben

[Sam Flynn]

That's [i.e. the alleged £5 reward] an inducement for liars and frauds to come forward and get paid off for giving false information and derailing the investigation in the process.

...which might, oddly enough, explain why the story appeared only in an American newspaper, rather than in any organs of the local press.

[Observer]

Hi Ben

perhaps...perhaps

Of course, it's more than likely Hutchinson was oblivious to the inducement as you suggested but it still remains (as Sam pointed out) there are two accounts separated by 80 years suggesting that Hutchinson recieved a payment of five times his weekly salary.

Observer