Hutch in the 1911 Census?

[richardnunweek]

Hi ,
This is getting nowhere, it is becoming obvious that no conformation, one way, or another is likely to satisfy the battlling competitors here.
The fact is Hutchinson still remains an enigma, i can recall radio broadcasts, imagine radio times listings from this moment on , and it means nothing.
Even if we cannot ascertain the identity of that man, to the satisfaction of all, it is not the end of Casebook.
What should be a simply exercise, has developed into a mammoth mystery , and it is becoming pointless.
For those of you that believe Topping has all the credentials ...Fine.
For Those of you , that say .No way Jose ..also fine.
The main mystery we all share is 'who was the Whitechapel murderer?', and I start with cancelling out GH.
Regards Richard.

[Fisherman]

David asks:

"What are you suggesting, here?"

Basically, David, I am suggesting that far too much is being suggested with far too little to support it. The "schoolboy manner" G, for example, is something where you suggest that this was how Toppy learnt to write his G:s in school. But we do not know this, do we? We don´t even know that all schools conformed to one type, and one type only of a G, nor do we know that all teachers had a total success in their efforts to hand down this exact G to their pupils. We don´t know if the G was an elaborated version when Toppy wrote - IF he was still using his school G, of which we cannot be sure how it was handed down to him.
It would be nice if we could easily state with certainty how Toppy established his way of writing. It would be more than handy. But we cannot do that. I can´t, at least.

The best,
Fisherman

[DVV]

Hi Richard,
does it disturb you if we discuss a precise, and perhaps important point, about Hutch and Toppy?
I've never said ONE thing against your opinion, the radio broadcasts (I believe you're not a liar), etc.
So where is your problem?
These forum have been created for such discussions. And I find this thread very interesting.
Would you forgive me?

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

David asks:

"What are you suggesting, here?"

Basically, David, I am suggesting that far too much is being suggested with far too little to support it. The "schoolboy manner" G, for example, is something where you suggest that this was how Toppy learnt to write his G:s in school. But we do not know this, do we? We don´t even know that all schools conformed to one type, and one type only of a G, nor do we know that all teachers had a total success in their efforts to hand down this exact G to their pupils. We don´t know if the G was an elaborated version when Toppy wrote - IF he was still using his school G, of which we cannot be sure how it was handed down to him.
It would be nice if we could easily state with certainty how Toppy established his way of writing. It would be more than handy. But we cannot do that. I can´t, at least.

The best,
Fisherman

Oh Fish,
where are you going ?
Maybe Toppy has learnt to write in the jungle. You may be right.
My bet is that he has learnt to write in school.

Amitiés mon cher,
David

[richardnunweek]

Hello David,
I am in complete agreement that this thread is intresting, and also opinion is what keeps threads operative, its just that i happen to believe that the truth has already been established, in favour of Topping being the witness all along.
Thanks for accepting the radio broadcast as a actual occurance, it just happens that 35+ years ago. [ which is a long time, in some case members were only a twinkle in their dads eye then] i was the only [ Apparently] Ripperologist in the entire world that heard Reg speak.
That obviously is my claim to fame, but no material to this day[ as far as i know] exists , even if i read it out of my aunts Radio Times.
What a shame.
Never mind i can live with that, after countless years following this subject, and the last ten years on the various Casebook sites, i have developed a very thick skin, and even Bob Hintons arsenal wont shut me up.
Regards Richard.

[DVV]

Thanks for accepting the radio broadcast as a actual Regards Richard.

No thanks needed, Richard,
I accept it without reservations, having not a single reason to doubt your word.
Your name isn't Hutchinson, is it ?

Amitiés Richard,
David

[Ben]

It was also bright at five o´clock PM. But if we were to suggestthat this consistency would keep the sky bright and blue at midnight, we would be disappointed. Bad comparison?

Disasterous I'm afraid, mate, since we have irrefutable evidence that the sky is certain to be dark at midnight. In the Toppy scenario, we don't have anything like the same degree of expectation, let alone a certainty. There isn't enough evidence for us to conclude that his signature was different in his 20s, and no reason to think so, thus far. We only have evidence of consistency over a lengthy time period. On the basis of the extant evidence, I'd feel extremely confident betting on a similar degree of consistency over a different period in time, which is infinitely better than hoping that he'd change precisely how you wanted him to have changed, and when.

A guess, yes. And you may be right. But HOW MUCH in minority? 49 per cent? 37? 1 per cent?

Well, put it this way, I've so far seen no examples of people who dithered indecisively over how to sign their name when in their twenties, but who nonetheless rigidly maintained a consistency in their signature in their 30s and 40s. This is why I'm inclined to consign anyone who might conform to this hypothetical model to the conspicuous minority.

As far as Toppy's plumbing career went, he would presumably have been in a position to delegate once he'd garnered the necessary experience and "status" as a plumber, which was likely to have occured by the time he turned 45. Either way, I'm not convinced that his average work-day would have been so gruelling on the arms and wrists that it would have affected his writing. If anything, it would have strenghtened the muscles and made his hands and wrists more resilient.

Best regards,
Ben

[Ben]

The main mystery we all share is 'who was the Whitechapel murderer?', and I start with cancelling out GH.

A disappointing end to an otherwise reasonable post, Richard.

Of course there's nothing that would permit us to "cancel out GH". That's just silly. If you wish to cancel anyone out, you should at least start with those with provable alibis or those with no connections to the East End.

Best regards,
Ben

[Sam Flynn]

Well, put it this way, I've so far seen no examples of people who dithered indecisively over how to sign their name when in their twenties...

We don't know that, and we can't prove that, Ben.

...but who nonetheless rigidly maintained a consistency in their signature in their 30s and 40s.

My (43 year-old) signature is currently consistent with what it was in my 30s, but it differs from what it was in my 20s, as we've seen.

[DVV]

My (43 year-old) signature is currently consistent with what it was in my 30s, but it differs from what it was in my 20s, as we've seen.

Hi Sam,
have you ever "regressed" to the point of "flourishing again" your capital G as you've learnt in school ?

Amitiés,
David

[Ben]

My (43 year-old) signature is currently consistent with what it was in my 30s, but it differs from what it was in my 20s, as we've seen.

I didn't detect much inconsistency in the signatures you provided, if I'm honest, Gareth. I doubt very much that any document examiner would suggest that your two examples were written by different hands.

Best regards,
Ben

[Crystal]

Still on the 'G's are we? Different form,that's the trouble. Hutch-elusive as ever, continues to elude us I think-maybe one day though...hang on! It couldn't have been that plumber bloke, could it? What was his name again?

[DVV]

Still on the G, Crystal, yes, and more than a difference, it's in my view an impossible one, or at least, a very unlikely one.
But you see, it has been suggested yesterday that Toppy went back to school after 1888.
...I guess he was there sharing a bench with Lambeth G...
So I think I've posted more than enough about this bloody G.

Amitiés,
David

[Crystal]

Oh but David, it all makes perfect sense now! Plumber School, obviously! Remember- Toppy used to be a groom..

[DVV]

...and became a pipe-man, that's it ?