Hutch in the 1911 Census?

[Ben]

On what basis, Ben?

On the basis that I outlined very earlier on in the thread, Gareth, as endorsed by some of the experts in the field of document examination, who were inclined to dismiss Toppy as the witness on the grounds that those differences were significant.

Indeed, but insignificant ones - and VERY few in number, considering the passage of time.

Most emphatically not. Sue Iremonger, who examined the documents, clearly didn't believe that the differences were "insignificant". She believed they outweighed the similarities. In fact, I've heard no actual expert in the field dismiss the differences as "insigificant" - quite the contrary. The differences assume greater significance, when we consider that they remained different (from the statement signatures) over a period spanning 13 years.

[DVV]

Ok Sam,

You took a great risk, so Toppy is the witness.
What else can I say ?

...except that, imo, some differences are significant.

Amitiés,
David

[Sam Flynn]

Actual differences as well, Sam.

Indeed, but insignificant ones - and VERY few in number, considering the passage of time. Do you seriously think I'd have risked identity-theft by posting my OWN signatures on a public website to prove that point, if I hadn't had good grounds to do so?

[DVV]

Actual similarities.

Actual differences as well, Sam.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

You're right (again), Ben,

and btw, non-experts differ also, don't they ?!

Amitiés,
David

[Sam Flynn]

I regard the differences to be hugely significant

On what basis, Ben?

certainly no less that the perceived similarities

Actual similarities.

an observation shared by Sue Iremonger who compared the signatures and arrived at the opinion that Toppy wasn't the witness.

Have we confirmed that she ever said that in such bald terms?

[Ben]

But the fact that experts differ doesn't mean they're valueless.

Indeed, David. Quite the contrary, as most people appear to appreciate the need for document examiners when undertaking comparisons such as these. I regard the differences to be hugely significant, certainly no less that the perceived similarities - an observation shared by Sue Iremonger who compared the signatures and arrived at the opinion that Toppy wasn't the witness.

Gosh, was that a circle we all went round in?

All the best,
Ben

[Mari]

Thanks

Hey everyone! Thanks for the warm welcome.


Babybird, if you haven't already you should really check out the thread East End Photographs and Drawings under the general discussion forum. It's the first thread i went through and it's wonderful.


Looking forward to Crystal's report on the signatures.


Mari

[DVV]

As we've seen, some "experts" differ and, as research indicates, many "non-experts" can be pretty good at this sort of thing.

Hi Sam,

Be sure I value your verdict. But the fact that experts differ doesn't mean they're valueless.
First, we don't know exactly what SI said, and why.
And Crystal is still at work.
Just wait and see...

Amitiés,
David

PS: Jerry Collins will leave Provence for the Ospreys...

[Sam Flynn]

Just like (some of) us, you see similarities and differences

I see differences too, Dave, but far more in the way of consistency - and those differences I see do not strike me as being in any way significant.

and therefore can't decide, knowing that you're no expert.

No shame in that. As we've seen, some "experts" differ and, as research indicates, many "non-experts" can be pretty good at this sort of thing.

[babybird67]

hi Mari



nice to meet you and welcome...this was the first thread i read...despite being warned not to go near Hutch threads! By then i was already reading it!

hope you enjoy yourself here...i'm just settling in myself

tc

[DVV]

Hello and welcome, Mari,

a sensible post.
Just like (some of) us, you see similarities and differences and therefore can't decide, knowing that you're no expert.
That's it!

Amitiés,
David

[Mari]

Finally, i get to come up for some air!

Hi Everyone!
This is my first post here so go easy on me. I honestly can't believe i read all 235 pages of this thread, hoping for some definitive answers one way or another, alas i haven't found that just yet. I've seen mention before of anyone having read this whole thread of being crazy, I'm currently awaiting the guys in white lab coats as we speak.

I was hoping to have a passionate argument for or against by this point but I'm no better off having read this entire thread than i was on say page 10, perhaps my eyes no longer work.

Either way i do see similarities and differences in the signatures, wish i was as sure as some of you guys. What i really want to say though was good luck, hope there are definitive answers someday so you all who have argued for or against have some final answers, however i doubt that'll happen anytime soon. Remember though just because you're at a keyboard and looking at a monitor doesn't make the people you're responding to any less real. I'd like to see you all continue to strive for the truth no matter you're personal stances or experience in different fields. Perhaps just maybe we could all be just a little nicer.

I have no personal stance, or experience in anything that could possibly help you guys to get your answers. Good luck though in all that you do, and that is to all of you!


PS< Sorry for the long winded post. I have a tendency of just going off on long tangents.
Mari

[Garry Wroe]

Hi Mike.

Apology gratefully accepted. And, for what it's worth, I may have written fairly extensively on Hutchinson, but have never publicly claimed that he was the Whitechapel Murderer. The evidence wasn't and still isn't strong enough to support any such claim. So feel free to offer constructive criticism any time. Thanks once again.

Evening Ben.

At one point, a number of years ago, I had a number of Hutchinson illustrations. The one to which you are alluding was published, I believe, by the Illustrated Police News shortly after the Miller's Court murder and almost certainly came about as a consequence of Hutchinson's interactions with the press on 13th and 14th November. As such, it is likely to be the most accurate representation of Hutchinson to have surfaced at the time.

Many thanks.

Garry Wroe.

[Ben]

deter

Defer! Curse it to oblivion.

And relax.

Crystal - Your efforts are both valued and appreciated, and I'm sure I'm not alone in anxiously awaiting the fruits of your generous labour.

All the best,
Ben