Sam writes:
"Trouble is - aside from the fact that I can't see how a rather young slum-dweller would have known especially what Randolph looked like - Churchill would have been long dead by the time Toppy told Reg about him. If I were to make such a comparison, it'd be of someone that was very much in the public eye - and very much alive - at the time I was telling the story to my son. I'm sure there'd have been plenty of "toffs" around in the 1920s or thereabouts (when Toppy's story is likely to have first been discussed with his son) for him to choose from.
Even that's not certain, given that we're talking about the years before the media came up with the cult of the celebrity. At that time, the average working man's immediate visual impressions of specific members of the ruling class might not have extended much beyond the Prime Minister, Lord Kitchener and the King."
Exactly, Sam; there is every chance that Hutchinson had no real idea what Randolph Churchill looked like. That is, in fact, to some extent my point. The papers of 1888 were not illustrated with photos to any larger extent (if any at all), and colour photos were not around.
So Hutch would probably not have known that Churchill did not correspond with his description of dark eyes and a Jewish appearance! Therefore, if he chose to compare Astrakhan man to Randolph Churchill, he did not do so in conflict with better knowledge when it came to looks - such a comparison would have pointed to other traits displayed by Churchill, at least the way Toppy perceived him. And the only other traits that are logical to mention here is wealth and status, being "higher up the social ladder", as Richard remembers it being referred to in a certain radio show.
So, to my mind, if Toppy did use the comparison, very much speaks of it originating from year one, more or less - the days when Churchill was still alive and spoken of. To think that Toppy would have started to speak of Churchill in the thirties is much less realistic, just as it is very unrealistic to think that Reg would have chosen the long dead lord himself if he wanted to make the story up all on his own.
The best,
Fisherman
"Trouble is - aside from the fact that I can't see how a rather young slum-dweller would have known especially what Randolph looked like - Churchill would have been long dead by the time Toppy told Reg about him. If I were to make such a comparison, it'd be of someone that was very much in the public eye - and very much alive - at the time I was telling the story to my son. I'm sure there'd have been plenty of "toffs" around in the 1920s or thereabouts (when Toppy's story is likely to have first been discussed with his son) for him to choose from.
Even that's not certain, given that we're talking about the years before the media came up with the cult of the celebrity. At that time, the average working man's immediate visual impressions of specific members of the ruling class might not have extended much beyond the Prime Minister, Lord Kitchener and the King."
Exactly, Sam; there is every chance that Hutchinson had no real idea what Randolph Churchill looked like. That is, in fact, to some extent my point. The papers of 1888 were not illustrated with photos to any larger extent (if any at all), and colour photos were not around.
So Hutch would probably not have known that Churchill did not correspond with his description of dark eyes and a Jewish appearance! Therefore, if he chose to compare Astrakhan man to Randolph Churchill, he did not do so in conflict with better knowledge when it came to looks - such a comparison would have pointed to other traits displayed by Churchill, at least the way Toppy perceived him. And the only other traits that are logical to mention here is wealth and status, being "higher up the social ladder", as Richard remembers it being referred to in a certain radio show.
So, to my mind, if Toppy did use the comparison, very much speaks of it originating from year one, more or less - the days when Churchill was still alive and spoken of. To think that Toppy would have started to speak of Churchill in the thirties is much less realistic, just as it is very unrealistic to think that Reg would have chosen the long dead lord himself if he wanted to make the story up all on his own.
The best,
Fisherman
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