Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson?

[Fisherman]

Lewis saw someone where Hutchinson said he was.

No, she did not. If she did see somebody outside Millers Court, then that somebody was standing on a spot where Hutchinson did NOT say he was.

[spyglass]

Hello Harry,

If the police had no reason to consider Hutch as a suspect then why does practically everyone on these boards consider his story and behavior highly suspicious?

c.d.

If Abberline wasn't inept as we must assume he wasn't, I'm guessing Hutchinson was at least under surveillance for a period after this.
I can't believe Abberline would have made a quick decision just like that.
Or Abberline knew something else that we don't.

Regards

[Varqm]

Perhaps it was a Crossinghams' resident taking a breath of fresh air. He was seen standing outside the lodging-house opposite Miller's Court, after all.

There was nothing in Miller's Court,no movement,per Lewis's statement.He must have been mentally ill looking at that court "as if waiting for someone".

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[Varqm]

First it's about whether Schwartz and Hutchinson were telling the truth or not.Analyze their statements to the police and newspapers ( The Star 1 OCTOBER and Evening News,Daily News 14 November respectively ),in Hutch's case relate it to Lewis
(inquest), and figure it out yourself without relying on another's opinion including the police whether this witness could be trusted/reliable.


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[Varqm]

If Abberline wasn't inept as we must assume he wasn't, I'm guessing Hutchinson was at least under surveillance for a period after this.
I can't believe Abberline would have made a quick decision just like that.
Or Abberline knew something else that we don't.

Regards

Yes Abberline's opinion/letter was too hasty,he did not even knew the woman/Kelly the witness/stranger was talking about was the victim/Kelly.
The police were too trustful of witnesses.Below is the City police but probably also the Met.

Oct 2 Star:

"There are many people in that district who volunteer information to the police on the principle of securing lenient treatment for their own offences, and there are others who turn in descriptions on the chance of coming near enough the mark to claim a portion of the reward if the man should be caught, just as one buys a ticket in a lottery.".

"SUPERINTENDENT FORSTER stated to a Star reporter this morning that he believed they had to deal with a man who was far too clever to go about boasting of what he was going to do. Every drunken man was more or less liable to seek a temporary notoriety by proclaiming himself the Whitechapel murderer. Very many of these reports are taken in hand by the detectives at
once, not so much because they expect to get a clue out of them as because it might be unsafe to neglect anything of that character,"

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[Varqm]

Sarah Lewis saw the man whom the police wanted everyone to believe was George Hutchinson and point a finger at the equally fictional Mr. Astrakhan.

Since they stopped the Kelly inquest abruptly. I thought they send in Hutch to divert attention away from the fact.But this is stretching it to far I think.

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[Batman]

When I went in the court I saw a man opposite the court in Dorset Street standing alone by the lodging house. He was not tall - but stout - had on a black wideawake hat - I did not notice his clothes - another young man with a woman passed along - the man standing in the street was looking up the court as if waiting for someone to come out... - Sarah Lewis

Not the first time we have heard stories about men with a military appearance waiting for somebody.

Still, Lewis knew nothing of Hutchinson when she made this claims.

Hutchinson is post-inquest.

[Fisherman]

When I went in the court I saw a man opposite the court in Dorset Street standing alone by the lodging house. He was not tall - but stout - had on a black wideawake hat - I did not notice his clothes - another young man with a woman passed along - the man standing in the street was looking up the court as if waiting for someone to come out... - Sarah Lewis

Not the first time we have heard stories about men with a military appearance waiting for somebody.

Still, Lewis knew nothing of Hutchinson when she made this claims.

Hutchinson is post-inquest.

And he did not stand by the lodging house, as per himself.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Varqm,

Why do you think this is stretching things too far?

Regards,

Simon

[Batman]

I went to the court to see if I could see them, but I could not. I stood there for about three quarters of an hour to see if they came out. They did not, so I went away. - Hutchinson

From one side of Dorset Street to the other is about a few paces.

https://forum.casebook.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4500&stc=1&d=1233977575

[Wickerman]

And he did not stand by the lodging house, as per himself.

Where do you expect he stood when he was close enough to hear them talk?

[Fisherman]

I went to the court to see if I could see them, but I could not. I stood there for about three quarters of an hour to see if they came out. They did not, so I went away. - Hutchinson

From one side of Dorset Street to the other is about a few paces.

https://forum.casebook.org/attachmen...1&d=1233977575

Yes, it is not a very long stretch, but it is a stretch Hutchinson never said he walked. All there is in the evidence is his assertion that he went to the corner of the court and his telling us that as he left, he left from the corner of the court. So he does specify where he was, and that somewhere was not by the lodging house.

He also says that he went up the court at one stage, but he never says that he crossed the street to the lodging house.

It also applies that the weather was bad, and so he would perhas not have wanted to leave the shelter offered by the passageway starting at the corner of the court.

All in all, there can be no denying that he COULD have walked over to the lodging house, but he would not have gotten a better vantage point by doing so and he would subject himself to the weather in a less favourable way.

In the end, what we cannot do is to claim what you claimed: that Hutchinson said that he was standing where Lewis later claimed he stood. He did no such thing at all. And the fact that he does not mention Lewis himself becomes of major interest once we realize this. If he had said that he took up his position in the doorway of the lodging house, the case for him and the lodger being one and the same would be much better, but as it stands, it is much weakened.

[Fisherman]

Where do you expect he stood when he was close enough to hear them talk?

Not at the corner of the court or outside the lodging house, Jon. He would have been some fair distance away, and as I remember things I have him having just turned into Dorset Street. I may have to check that, though, but if my memory serves, thatīs where I think he was.

This was discussed with some heat some years back. That I do remember.

[Batman]

Hutchinson claimed to spend the night walking around Whitechapel. He obviously didn't care about the elements.

The distance between the entrance front of Miller's court and across the street is but a shuffle of a few feet.

Sarah Lewis didn't know about Hutchinson. Let's see what she says about him...

...the man standing in the street was looking up the court as if waiting for someone to come out...

1. She notes he gives the appearance he is waiting for someone.
2. She puts him in the street itself.

So we don't even have to have him the full distance across the road. There is literally only a few feet between her claims and Hutchinson's and she guessed correctly what he was doing.

The job of someone who doesn't believe Hutchinson is to explain why their stories corroborate here.

[Fisherman]

Batman: Hutchinson claimed to spend the night walking around Whitechapel. He obviously didn't care about the elements.

Unless he DID - but was in place the night before, as suggested by Walter Dew. Itīs not until we use the whole deck of cards we can see all possibilities.

The distance between the entrance front of Miller's court and across the street is but a shuffle of a few feet.

And once again, Hutchinson did NOT place himself across the street. If Dorset Street had been forty feet wide, he COULD still have crossed it but the whole point is that he never said he did. And there is no law of nature that beckons us to cross streets, is there?
The fact of the matter is that whenever he places himself somewhere, that somewhere is ALWAYS the corner of the court. Why deny it? Why not accept that it points away from him being the loiterer?
The idea that he was the loiterer was always based on how he said he was in place on the murder night, because if he was, then the man Lewis saw MUST have been Hutchinson.
But what happens if we listen to Dew? Well, Hutchinson disappears, shazam! Gone.
But, you say, there WAS a man outside the court - surely that man MUST have been Hutchinson, even if he was not there? Surely that man has been pinned down as Hutchinson?
Nope. If Hutchinson was not there, then that man was ANOTHER of the endless row of men in the area, and there is nothing at all strange about it. It is in fact the other way around, it makes sense of the evidence:
Hutchinson walked the streets all night, and the night before the murder night was a nice one. Hutchinson never said he saw Lewis, who would have passed right by him. Hutchinsons evidence was not accepted as decisive once Abberline had taken a closer look at it. Hutchinsons son Reg said that his father was disappointed than nothing came of his evidence. It ALL fits once we accept that he was out on the days, while nothing fits if he was truly there.

Sarah Lewis didn't know about Hutchinson. Let's see what she says about him...

1. She notes he gives the appearance he is waiting for someone.
2. She puts him in the street itself.

So we don't even have to have him the full distance across the road. There is literally only a few feet between her claims and Hutchinson's and she guessed correctly what he was doing.

She said he was up against the lodging house, end of. He says he was on the other side of the road, at the corner of the court, end of.
The "appearance as if waiting for someone is kind of hard to fit together with how she was not able to describe him at all at first and then only very roughly on the inquest day, leaving out any facial features. He may have been turned towards the court for whatever reason, and he may have leant out (if he did do that) to check if the rain was seemingly letting up.
Any man, any lodger in the lodging house, may have stood in the doorway, waiting to step out into the street. Lewis was only in place for some seconds, and there is absolutely nothing telling us that the man must have been Hutchinson once we allow for Hutch having mistaken the days. Not a iot.
The lodger having to be Hutchinson was yesterdays truth. Today is a new day.

The job of someone who doesn't believe Hutchinson is to explain why their stories corroborate here.

I just did. At the end of the day, there is not even any certainty that Lewis did not make her man up, and even if she did not, standing in a doorway as it rains was never any very outlandish thing to do.
Once we allow for Dew to be correct, itīs game over for Hutchinson as the lodger, and the bits and pieces all fall in place. Once we donīt, ONE bit fall in place and the others stay impossible to fit in.
Connect the dots, Batman.