Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson?

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Michael,

I believe this was Inspector Henry Moore, who in December 1899 claimed £77.11s expenses in respect of the Whitechapel Murders.

Inspector Moore - Pall Mall Gazette 4th November 1889 [Talking to journalist R. Harding Davis] -

"He cut the skeleton so clean of flesh that when I got here I could hardly tell whether it was a man or a woman. He hung the different parts of the body on nails and over the backs of chairs. It must have taken him an hour and a half in all. And when he was ready to go he found the door was jammed and had to make his escape through the larger of those two windows." Imagine how this man felt when he tried the door and found it was locked; that was before he thought of the window - believing that he was locked in with that bleeding skeleton and the strips of flesh that he had hung so fantastically about the room, that he had trapped himself beside his victim, and had helped to put the rope around his own neck."

Regards,

Simon

I wasnt sure of my memory Simon, so thank you for this. :

[Michael W Richards]

Do we know if there were shards of glass in the right lower window pane or was all the glass removed from that corner thus making it safer but a larger gap?

There were 2 windows there Darryl, each had 3 rows of 3...or was it 3 rows of 4..smaller panes within the single frame. The lower right pane was not completly devoid of glass, just the centre section was broken...and the second window further down the wall from the corner, also had one of those panes broken, in the same fashion. Which one the couple broke when they had the fight Barnett recollected is a guess, but for my money, the pane on the window furthest down the wall is the most probable one. I believe that Mary and/or Joe purposefully broke that lower right pane so they could access the latch after they had lost the key to lock the room. That way they could still lock the door when the went out. Did Mary lock it that night before leaving? My guess is no, Mary Ann saw them approach and then enter the room without seeing Mary do any gymnastics to get the latch through the broken pane.

[DJA]

Do we know if there were shards of glass in the right lower window pane or was all the glass removed from that corner thus making it safer but a larger gap?

https://photos.casebook.org/albums/millers1/09MillersCt.jpg

The photo taken during the afternoon shows the bottom right pane that was utilised to be "intact".

[Sam Flynn]

The photo taken during the afternoon shows the bottom right pane that was utilised to be "intact".

Some people think they can see the outline of a hole there, and I wouldn't argue with them, because it's hard to tell one way or another from such a contrasty photograph. I've toned down the contrast a little to make it easier to spot, and I've drawn a red line to show where the edge of broken pane might still just be made out:

[DJA]

The pane above was in worse condition,yet there are those here that believe McCarthy was not aware.

[Wickerman]

There seems to be a large hole in the middle of the top right pane.

Bowyer, at the inquest, stated that the furthest pane (bottom left?) was broken, this was the one he reached through to move the curtain.

Dr Philips said that two panes in the smaller window were broken, he looked through the lower of the two.

[packers stem]

Yep
Top right was quite clearly 'holed'
Inquest testimony of Bowyer and Phillips tell us that the other broken pane had to be lower left .
No one without the anatomy of a rather brave orangutan would be attempting to open the door through that top right pane with shards waiting to rip their arm up

[DJA]

You rang?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_of_the_Rue_Morgue

[Michael W Richards]

The same irregular dark space on the window panes is on the lower right pane as is on the upper pane..I believe Sam traces the outline of one side of that break. It was the window in the photo that is the lowest righthand pane that would be used to gain access to the room. Some have tried to replicate the move by measuring the distance of their reach against what they believe would be the distance from standing outside the window and reaching in..but for me the facts that both the window, and the door, which were later additions to that ex parlor room, and were added extremely close to the corner makes it safe to assume that it should have been relatively easy to reach in unscathed.

We know it was opened that way, Barnett said so, so speculating which window and whether or not it could actually be reached are moot points at best. Ill add that it would have been easy as well to push anything blocking the door from its inswing from the window,...raising the issue of McCarthy forcing open the door later. He owned the furniture in the room...might he be trying to create a situation where the police would have to reimburse him for the furniture?

[Wickerman]

The same irregular dark space on the window panes is on the lower right pane as is on the upper pane..

I noticed that myself but when enlarged that hole is very spotty, it's more likely an imperfection in the photo.

I believe Sam traces the outline of one side of that break.

I think the red line Sam drew was the same break in the upper right pane.

It was the window in the photo that is the lowest righthand pane that would be used to gain access to the room.

Agreed, the lower right pane would be nearest the center point of the door where a lock should be installed.

We know it was opened that way, Barnett said so,...

It's always refreshing to know there are still some who do believe what witnesses say.

...raising the issue of McCarthy forcing open the door later. He owned the furniture in the room...might he be trying to create a situation where the police would have to reimburse him for the furniture?

I'm more inclined to think McCarthy only wanted to save his door from being busted off the frame. Getting reimbursement from the police couldn't have been an easy exercise.

[Wickerman]

There is something else in this picture.
I doubt the right arm is the best limb to use in reaching the lock, it must surely be the left arm.
And, as such, what does Barnet hold on to with his right hand as he reaches through?
Isn't it natural to steady yourself by grasping something firm?

Notice the white mark on the down spout? If he is grasping the corner of the wall to steady himself, then his coat sleeve is rubbing on the downspout.

[Sam Flynn]

raising the issue of McCarthy forcing open the door later. He owned the furniture in the room...

A few sticks of old, knackered furniture - and some of it soaked in blood, at that.

[rjpalmer]

Hi Wickerman. Looking at the upper and lower halves of the window, the framework looks 'off-set.' To me, it looks like the window opens by sliding it upwards. Is that the way you see it? Best wishes, RP

[Scott Nelson]

I've long held that Barnett grasped the drain pipe with his right hand while reaching through the broken pane with his left. The pipe would afford a slightly closer reach in with the left arm.

Incidentally, at Kelly's inquest Barnett reportedly said that a pipe was there and used by him when talking about the subject of entry into the room. But this may have been misunderstood by both the press and the inquest scribe to mean that a (smoking) pipe was found there because of the arbitrary questioning and ambiguous nature of the testimony.

[Wickerman]

Hi Wickerman. Looking at the upper and lower halves of the window, the framework looks 'off-set.' To me, it looks like the window opens by sliding it upwards. Is that the way you see it? Best wishes, RP

I'm sure these are sash windows, which open just as you describe.
The upper panes slides down, and the lower panes slide up, when they work. Wood rot, damp, a jammed ballast, or untold coats of paint can all prevent either set from sliding.