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  • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    Regardless of the state of forensic science at the time, there were tangible connections between one of the perpetrators and the victim, Bobby Franks, his second cousin. Loeb lived across the street from Franks, who had often played tennis at Loeb's place. (source: Wikipedia) That his accomplice and co-conspirator Leopold fed the police with misinformation, whilst Loeb kept his head down, is hardly surprising in the circumstances.
    he still inserted himself. he didn't have to. and even though the circs are different- criminals, killers do it.

    and if hutch is the killer yes it is somewhat surprising he inserted himself-however, if he thought hed been spotted and not knowing if Lewis might have known him or not-its not as surprising.


    Dennis Rader, AKA BTK, was pretty much scott free until he again inserted himself by sending the police a computer disc, which eventually led to his capture.

    They do it for a variety of reasons, under different circs, and by different methods-yet despite the risk-still do.


    to try to use hutch coming forward as some kind of reason to clear him is just plain silly and misguided.
    "Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?"

    -Edgar Allan Poe


    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

    -Frederick G. Abberline

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Ben View Post
      the curly moustached pantomime villain with the red stone seal and the sinister black parcel.
      Now the parcel is black?

      Why do the Hutchinson theorists feel the need to misrepresent the evidence?


      What's unintentially funny about this 'sinister' parcel (it could be a present for his child for all we know, I fail to see what is sinister about a parcel with a strap) is that one of the chief figures in the Hutchinson dogma, Sarah Lewis, really does describe having met a sinister man with a black leather bag in Bethnal Green who invited her up a dark alley (making him a pantomime villain in Ben's world view) yet she remains their star witness. Seems like a contradiction. What's good for the goose, clearly isn't good for the gander.

      Originally posted by Ben View Post
      I’ve got a pretty good idea which side would stand up in court.

      Don't kid yourself, Ben. Court? After three full-length books on the Hutchinson theory, there isn't even enough evidence to warrant a pre-trial hearing, let alone a court case. It's the same three weak arguments for the past 20 years. And if on a fluke it ever did make it to court, the character witness for the defense would be the lead investigator.
      "It is patently not necessary to be in league with the hoaxer in order to be instrumental in promoting a hoax. All that is required is a willingness to disregard well established historiographical evidence and a tendency to elevate coincidence, 'curious connections' and conjecture to the status of fact." - A. Chisholm

      Comment


      • Hi All,

        Here's a clue.

        This signature is the genuine article.

        Click image for larger version

Name:	SIG 3.JPG
Views:	3
Size:	33.8 KB
ID:	667479

        Regards,

        Simon
        Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Ben View Post
          Hi Caz,

          You say you don’t “get” why Hutchinson would have waited outside the court for 45 minutes if he was the killer
          Is that what she said?

          I was under the impression that Caz asked why Hutchinson would have ADMITTED to having been at the scene of the crime for 45 minutes had he been Ted Bundy.


          I think I've had enough of this claptrap for one week.
          "It is patently not necessary to be in league with the hoaxer in order to be instrumental in promoting a hoax. All that is required is a willingness to disregard well established historiographical evidence and a tendency to elevate coincidence, 'curious connections' and conjecture to the status of fact." - A. Chisholm

          Comment


          • Only just caught this, rj, and have yet to read Ben's response(s) in full.

            But yes, I don't get why Hutch the ripper would a) not only need to hang around his latest crime scene for that length of time before entering the room [ assuming Kelly was already in there and alone, of course], but b) allow himself to be seen by any passing witness and c) as a consequence, feel obliged to tell the cops all about it, in case one of those witnesses had seen his face clearly enough to know him again.

            I mean, how stupid would this 1880s equivalent of Ted Bundy need to be, not to simply keep his face and hair out of sight under his hat while loitering there for this seeming eternity, before finally deciding it was safe to enter? How the devil could anyone have posed a risk to him if he'd taken this basic precaution?

            That's what I don't get.

            Love,

            Caz
            X
            "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


            Comment


            • I really don't get why most people are certain Sarah Lewis saw Hutchinson.
              "One policeman went by the Commercial-street end of Dorset-street while I was standing there, but no one came down Dorset-street. I saw one man go into a lodging-house in Dorset-street, and no one else"
              That statement in itself is enough to cast doubt on it being Hutchinson. If he had seen Sarah go up the court he would surely have said so.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
                I really don't get why most people are certain Sarah Lewis saw Hutchinson.
                "One policeman went by the Commercial-street end of Dorset-street while I was standing there, but no one came down Dorset-street. I saw one man go into a lodging-house in Dorset-street, and no one else"
                That statement in itself is enough to cast doubt on it being Hutchinson. If he had seen Sarah go up the court he would surely have said so.
                You're 100% correct, Darryl, but I bet it won't be long before we see some creative arguments from those who want the contrary to be true
                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                Comment


                • Hi Darryl and Sam
                  wow you guys have me confused now.

                  Didn't hutch say he stood there waiting to see if they came out again(aman and mary) at the same time lewis said she saw a man standing in the same place (wide awake hat man-who was certainly hutch) as if waiting and watching for someone to come out?
                  "Is all that we see or seem
                  but a dream within a dream?"

                  -Edgar Allan Poe


                  "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                  quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                  -Frederick G. Abberline

                  Comment


                  • I keep asking you guy's to get your heads together to come up with a workable consensus
                    Need more time?
                    Regards, Jon S.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Robert St Devil View Post
                      Whose house? Mary's?? If he means her apartment AND he didn't see where they went, how does he know which house is hers? Are they such good friends that he knows where she lives without being guided?
                      Going into the court to see if he could see them may mean to look through the window. No alternate viewing position was available. That is how I interpret his words.
                      So, it doesn't only mean he looked around the court for them.
                      Regards, Jon S.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                        ...... he went to her place and found out she was with a guest. Her window was broken, so he may have heard them. Or he may have knocked and told to bugger off. So he waits awhile for her guest to leave, after about 45 minutes or so leaves,....
                        So, do I take it now that you believe the claim in the press where Hutchinson said "I went up the court"?

                        ......comes back about an hour later, finds the man gone. Enters marys room and kills her, coinciding with the heard cries of murder around 4:00 am.
                        Total speculation i know but fits for me.
                        And that scenario could apply to Blotchy, Hutchinson, or anyone else she was seen in company with Thursday/Friday.
                        Regards, Jon S.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ben View Post
                          It never ceases to amaze me that for some people, a working class local resorting to subterfuge is the “Hollywood” explanation,....
                          I think it's the song & dance we have to go through just to make this working-class local appear as a viable suspect.


                          .......whilst the curly moustached pantomime villain with the red stone seal and the sinister black parcel is the plausible one. It’s difficult to envisage a more “Hollywood” suspect that the Astrakhan man, but for some commentators, he’s the real deal.
                          How was Dr. Neil Cream dressed, and what was his social class?
                          Regards, Jon S.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                            So, do I take it now that you believe the claim in the press where Hutchinson said "I went up the court"?



                            And that scenario could apply to Blotchy, Hutchinson, or anyone else she was seen in company with Thursday/Friday.
                            Hi Wick
                            Ive always believed that he did and that he then stood and waited for her for the 45 minutes or so.


                            Im just not sure he actually saw Mary that night.


                            im pretty sure he never saw Aman.

                            And that scenario could apply to Blotchy, Hutchinson, or anyone else she was seen in company with Thursday/Friday.
                            exactly-which is why I don't rule out Blotchy, Barnett or even Bowyer for that matter.
                            "Is all that we see or seem
                            but a dream within a dream?"

                            -Edgar Allan Poe


                            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                            -Frederick G. Abberline

                            Comment


                            • Sometimes I hum "Violets from My Mother's Grave" just to drown out the snarkery. Or I try to remember the color of those eyelashes.

                              At other times I wonder if Hutchinson really did head to Australia, and why.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by keithsmurray View Post
                                Sometimes I hum "Violets from My Mother's Grave" just to drown out the snarkery. Or I try to remember the color of those eyelashes.

                                At other times I wonder if Hutchinson really did head to Australia, and why.
                                Hi Keith
                                LOL!

                                re Aussie Hutch-I believe you are referring to author Stephen Sinese research/book and the mug shot?

                                I think if hutch has been Identified this is it.
                                "Is all that we see or seem
                                but a dream within a dream?"

                                -Edgar Allan Poe


                                "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                                quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                                -Frederick G. Abberline

                                Comment

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