Possible reason for Hutch coming forward

[DJA]

Someone who died of syphilis.
Ardent supporter of horse racing .....

https://static.artuk.org/w1200h1200/NTIV/NTIV_CHAW_12662.jpg

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon,
Who do you think the press were talking about when they wrote, on Nov. 19th, about the police being divided between Blotchy & A-man, them both being suspects?
Or, are you just ignoring that?

I believe on the 15th there is a press release that states the story is not being held in high esteem any longer, maybe this is when they concluded any investigation on him if there was one.

Michael.

Here's the sequence of events.
- Nov. 12th, Hutchinson provides the police with a story.
- Nov. 13th, A brief outline of this story is published in the press.
Plus, the Central News interview Hutchinson at the Victoria Home, while the press report that the police are divided between two suspects - Astrachan & Blotchy.
- Nov 14th, the Central News interview with Hutchinson appears in the press, while his story is now "the subject of careful inquiry"(Echo).
- Nov. 15th, The story by Hutchinson is now discredited (Star).
- Nov. 16th, the 'Galloway' story appears where a constable claims to be looking for a man quite different in appearance to Blotchy.
- Nov. 19th, reports are published that the police are still divided between two suspects - Astrachan & Blotchy.

Now Michael, at what point, in your opinion, do the police seem to find a problem and loose interest in Hutchinson's story?

[Robert St Devil]

Jack the Wrapper!

couldn't resist, couldya Sam?

[Sam Flynn]

I thought this coat [the Moscow Wrapper] was an interesting suggestion...

Jack the Wrapper!

[Robert St Devil]

I thought this coat [the Moscow Wrapper] was an interesting suggestion for the coat "supposedly" worn by the "Astracan man". It seemed to be fashionable in the early 70s.

- Single-breasted Moscow Wrapper of brown Melton or Beaver. It is cut to hang rather full, the fronts close by a fly, and fasten up to the neck, and the sleeves are of the Pagoda form, wide at wrists. The collar is turned down all around, and is covered with black Astracan fur; all the edges of the coat, the bottom of the sleeves, and the breast pocket, are trimmed with bands of the same fur about two inches in width. [emphasis]

[Sam Flynn]

hi Sam
so you don't think he was waiting man as seen by Lewis?

There was a large lodging-house directly opposite the entrance to Miller's Court, so it's not inconceivable that the man seen by Lewis was one of the lodgers, or perhaps a member of staff, who'd nipped outside for a breath of air.

[Abby Normal]

Respectably dressed, at any rate. Whether he had a similar appearance to Mr Astrakhan is hard to tell because, despite Best and Gardner having apparently spent some time standing in this man's vicinity - even exchanging some words with him - the sum total of B&G's combined testimony is nowhere near as detailed as George Hutchinson's.

exactly. respectably dressed-not ostentatiously wealthy dressed

[Abby Normal]

If he was there at all, which I doubt. Like I suggested, what kind of idiot would wander the streets all night in the rain, having spent 45 minutes in or around a courtyard that had a covered passageway leading to it?

hi Sam
so you don't think he was waiting man as seen by Lewis?

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby. Don't buy it.

This Astrakhan man was so wildly improbable (?) that an Inspector with many years in H-Division--and thus a local knowledge that dwarfs the collective wisdom of three dozen Ripperologists--accepted him without irony, dozens of hardened journalists accepted him, and twice he was featured on the front of the Illustrated Police News without a single howl of laughter. Four years later some even had a name for him: Frederick Deeming.

https://blog.findmypast.com/ripper-series-part-one-the-murderous-mr-deeming-1406076318.html

Clearly, someone forgot to tell Freakish Fred (who dropped his aitches) that he was an 'ighly improbable dresser.

So what gives?

Only our impressions.

No, Mr. Astrakhan was not impossible nor improbable. The contemporaries knew their water; they swam in it. Mr. A only became impossible and improbable in the late 1980s when the 'profilers' took over--that and the exaggerated image of the East End as a relentless stage of continuous squalor and evil, so near and dear to the heart of Ripper historians.

I remember a line of a black comic in the U.S.; "go to the ghetto, step off the bus, gonna get stabbed."

[Hint: he didn't mean it: he was making fun of the exaggerated view of the ghetto, as viewed by affluent whites]. Imagine! Some toffs wander into the ghetto and don't even get killed!

Whitechapel Road 1868:

http://jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=22435

Q. Why does the artist include so many well-dressed dandies and dudes walking up Whitechapel Road?

Because, the fact is, the poorer areas of a city are ALWAYS filled with overdressed people: pimps, street gamblers, bully boys, those who like to lord over the impoverished, and even those who merely have the Jesse Jackson/Malcolm X dignity of "you can put me in the slums, but you can't put the slums in me."

Sometimes, the most overdressed man in the world is the man born in the slums--he has the most to prove.

If I was Fred Abberline I would be very worried that this particular man existed.

so worried that later when explaining at length who his favored suspect was, George Chapman, he never mentions hutch or his suspect, despite the fact that chapman actually matched Amans description. and instead opts for the witnesses who saw the peaked cap man.

I don't doubt that someone of Amans appearance could have been in WC then, just hutchs ridiculous detailed description of him and the rest of the circs surrounding it.

[rjpalmer]

Hi Abby. Don't buy it.

This Astrakhan man was so wildly improbable (?) that an Inspector with many years in H-Division--and thus a local knowledge that dwarfs the collective wisdom of three dozen Ripperologists--accepted him without irony, dozens of hardened journalists accepted him, and twice he was featured on the front of the Illustrated Police News without a single howl of laughter. Four years later some even had a name for him: Frederick Deeming.

https://blog.findmypast.com/ripper-series-part-one-the-murderous-mr-deeming-1406076318.html

Clearly, someone forgot to tell Freakish Fred (who dropped his aitches) that he was an 'ighly improbable dresser.

So what gives?

Only our impressions.

No, Mr. Astrakhan was not impossible nor improbable. The contemporaries knew their water; they swam in it. Mr. A only became impossible and improbable in the late 1980s when the 'profilers' took over--that and the exaggerated image of the East End as a relentless stage of continuous squalor and evil, so near and dear to the heart of Ripper historians.

I remember a line of a black comic in the U.S.; "go to the ghetto, step off the bus, gonna get stabbed."

[Hint: he didn't mean it: he was making fun of the exaggerated view of the ghetto, as viewed by affluent whites]. Imagine! Some toffs wander into the ghetto and don't even get killed!

Whitechapel Road 1868:

http://jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=22435

Q. Why does the artist include so many well-dressed dandies and dudes walking up Whitechapel Road?

Because, the fact is, the poorer areas of a city are ALWAYS filled with overdressed people: pimps, street gamblers, bully boys, those who like to lord over the impoverished, and even those who merely have the Jesse Jackson/Malcolm X dignity of "you can put me in the slums, but you can't put the slums in me."

Sometimes, the most overdressed man in the world is the man born in the slums--he has the most to prove.

If I was Fred Abberline I would be very worried that this particular man existed.

[Michael W Richards]

Which doesn't quite square with his rather creepy description of Astrakhan Man - "he looked at me stern", "very surly looking", "Jewish/foreign appearance", "small parcel with a kind of strap around it", etc. This at the height of the Ripper scare, and Hutch thought this guy was nothing to worry about? Hard to believe.

Thanks Sam, hard to believe someone didn't see that earlier. All he said was he watched, why he watched is up for grabs.....and the above does speak volumes. As I said earlier, his statement took someone unknown to everyone, in particular the Police....and made him someone Mary knew and was friendly with. None of which is substantiated by anyone.

Caz, had Hutchinson come forward with his statement on Friday night, would there have been a Pardon issuance for Accomplices on Saturday? I'm sure you know this is rhetorical. The answer is no.

[Sam Flynn]

Don't forget, J. Best and John Gardner also described a well-dressed individual with a similar appearance to Astrakhan Man seen with Stride on the night of her murder.

Respectably dressed, at any rate. Whether he had a similar appearance to Mr Astrakhan is hard to tell because, despite Best and Gardner having apparently spent some time standing in this man's vicinity - even exchanging some words with him - the sum total of B&G's combined testimony is nowhere near as detailed as George Hutchinson's.

[Robert St Devil]

Don't forget, J. Best and John Gardner also described a well-dressed individual with a similar appearance to Astrakhan Man seen with Stride on the night of her murder.

Excellent point!

[Sam Flynn]

yup-its probably the real reason he was there looking for Mary that night-looking for a place to crash.

If he was there at all, which I doubt. Like I suggested, what kind of idiot would wander the streets all night in the rain, having spent 45 minutes in or around a courtyard that had a covered passageway leading to it?

[Abby Normal]

I daresay he could have crashed out in the arched passageway at the entrance to Miller's Court if he'd felt so inclined. That way, he could have found shelter from the elements AND kept an eye on Kelly's room at the same time. He might even have caught the killer as an added bonus

yup-its probably the real reason he was there looking for Mary that night-looking for a place to crash.