The profession of Jack the Ripper.

[Albert]

If Long or Cadosh were correct,and I'm far from convinced,then Chapman was killed in broad daylight.
It's Eddowes where the lack of light becomes near impossible with no moonlight, overcast and drizzly and the darkest corner of mitre square...
No doubt in my mind of artificial light,or not killed on the spot and I know people will be up in arms about that lol.Finding and removing a kidney with no light at all is too much to be expected to believe

I am in agreement with you over this. The mutilations and extractions in Mitre Square would seem impossible without some sort of light. As you say, it could have been daylight in Hanbury Street.
Regards
Albert

[Michael W Richards]

How do we know that Chapman's killer didn't have her legs flat and open while he was extracting the uterus and later drew up the legs to make it appear more lewd to the person discovering Annie's body?

Thats possible, but the crux of your reply was essentially what I was going to say. We dont know when the legs were drawn up.

It actually not a very debatable point really...after Annie Chapmans murder the investigation changed, thats a tangible factoid, and skilled and knowledgable was the profile for the man they sought. Which means at the very least that the police felt Phillips determination on these 2 points was accurate.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Hi,


And the "selection" you mention is not random. That is the point. He made the selection himself. He chose the nights on which he would kill.

Best regards, Pierre

That is, only if Jack had a perfect batting average.

[Rosella]

That is, only if Jack had a perfect batting average.

Yes, exactly. Jack could have been on the prowl two or three nights a week, for all we know. The women that he attempted to pick up could have been on their guard, he could have been interrupted by passers by as he was about to attempt a strangling, the location could just have been too dark or unsafe for his operations. I doubt very much that he had a perfect success rate.

[Craig H]

Major Henry Smith - military service

Sorry to interrupt the flow ... can anyone find out information on Major Henry Smith's previous military history ?

In the 1881 Census, he was a Captain in the Suffolk Artillery Brigade Militia .

From Google, I understand this corps assumed the title 3rd Brigade,Eastern Division,Royal Artilllery in 1882 and became The Suffolk Artillery ( Eastern Division R.A.) in1889.

Does anyone know where Smith served and when ? I think it was between 1860 - 1887 and also think most of time was in India ?

Appreciate any assistance

Craig

[John G]

[QUOTE=Abby Normal;372633]

and yet he was able to remove her uterus in difficult circumstances and in little time.

I'm not saying he was a world class surgeon, but obviously he knew what he was doing and what he wanted. and since he removed the uterus in his next victim, its clear he was targeting specific internal organs, and how to get them.

we also have to keep in mind, that if he did have some kind of medical experience, if he was performing the same operation in clinical conditions, the wounds would have appeared more clean and "professional".
But he wasn't. and quickness was the key.

at the very least, he was used to cutting up bodies (even perhaps just animals) combined with some hands on experience with human anatomy.

the least likely scenario IMHO is that he had absolutely no experience in either and was just doing smash and grabs, fumbling around for what he could find.

Hi Abby,

But if the contemporary doctors were correct then he must have been exercising an extremely high level of skill; that's the problem. In fact, if anything, even more skill was evident in respect of Eddowes, and than Chapman, which seriously undermines the different killers argument, i.e. that Eddowes killer was less adept. One of Trevor's experts said this:

" To work in such an intricate manner and to remove the kidney carefully and the uterus without damaging the surrounding tissue with a six-inch knife would be very difficult. In the time the perpetrator had with their heightened levels of awareness and the prospect of being caught makes it even more difficult...only a person with an expert knowledge of anatomy would be able to remove the organs in the manner described and would find it very difficult if not impossible in almost total darkness." (Marriott, 2013).

To my mind, by today's standards the Victorian GPs carried out only a relativelycursory examination of the bodies-as evidenced by the fact that Dr Phillips was not expecting to give a detailed autopsy report at the Chapman inquest-and therefore their conclusions, as regards the skill of the perpetrator, cannot be relied upon.

As Dr Biggs remarked, in respect of the Eddowes inquest testimony:

"Much of the description is vague and potentially ambiguous. Repeated use of 'about' implies estimations rather than measurements of wpunds, and the assumption that a long bladed knife must have been used is not valid: a short or medium blade could have been used to inflict such injuries." (Marriott, 2013).

Mind you, if I'm wrong than one of my favourite suspects, Francis Thompson, must surely be propelled to the top of the list, as no other significant suspects had anything like the level of surgical skill that would have been required

[Rosella]

Smith was in the Militia. They didn't serve overseas. The militia were reservists, kept for emergency defence of the homeland. According to the A-Z Smith was commissioned in the Suffolk Artillery Militia (as an officer) in 1869 and reached the rank of Major. After the army was reorganised in the late 1860's militia units trained regularly alongside regiments of the regular British army (by region.) They would take part in exercises several times a year and stay in camp. They weren't regular Army, however

[Craig H]

Hi Rosella

Many thx for that .... I didn't know that.

So what would he have done for money ? Was it a career or more if an army reserve ??

Craig

[GUT]

Smith was in the Militia. They didn't serve overseas. The militia were reservists, kept for emergency defence of the homeland. According to the A-Z Smith was commissioned in the Suffolk Artillery Militia (as an officer) in 1869 and reached the rank of Major. After the army was reorganised in the late 1860's militia units trained regularly alongside regiments of the regular British army (by region.) They would take part in exercises several times a year and stay in camp. They weren't regular Army, however

Hi Rosella

Many thx for that .... I didn't know that.

So what would he have done for money ? Was it a career or more if an army reserve ??

Craig

Think Dad's Army.

[Rosella]

Militia men were paid. Officers were paid a small yearly stipend. It wasn't really a career. The men worked it around their ordinary jobs, labouring or whatever. The officers came from that class that didn't need to work, as did the officers in the regular British Army of the time (who were paid a salary.)

Smith, according to the A-Z, spent a lot of time as a man around town in London, (the Social Season, gentlemans clubs, etc) and hunting in Northumberland. He did live with his widowed mother.

[Abby Normal]

[QUOTE=John G;372660]

Hi Abby,

But if the contemporary doctors were correct then he must have been exercising an extremely high level of skill; that's the problem. In fact, if anything, even more skill was evident in respect of Eddowes, and than Chapman, which seriously undermines the different killers argument, i.e. that Eddowes killer was less adept. One of Trevor's experts said this:

" To work in such an intricate manner and to remove the kidney carefully and the uterus without damaging the surrounding tissue with a six-inch knife would be very difficult. In the time the perpetrator had with their heightened levels of awareness and the prospect of being caught makes it even more difficult...only a person with an expert knowledge of anatomy would be able to remove the organs in the manner described and would find it very difficult if not impossible in almost total darkness." (Marriott, 2013).

To my mind, by today's standards the Victorian GPs carried out only a relativelycursory examination of the bodies-as evidenced by the fact that Dr Phillips was not expecting to give a detailed autopsy report at the Chapman inquest-and therefore their conclusions, as regards the skill of the perpetrator, cannot be relied upon.

As Dr Biggs remarked, in respect of the Eddowes inquest testimony:

"Much of the description is vague and potentially ambiguous. Repeated use of 'about' implies estimations rather than measurements of wpunds, and the assumption that a long bladed knife must have been used is not valid: a short or medium blade could have been used to inflict such injuries." (Marriott, 2013).

Mind you, if I'm wrong than one of my favourite suspects, Francis Thompson, must surely be propelled to the top of the list, as no other significant suspects had anything like the level of surgical skill that would have been required

Hi JohnG
Thanks!

Chapman.

and as regards to francis Thompson-there is absolutely NOTHING that ties him to the case. Hes an interesting charactor, I'll give you that, and nothing definitively rules him out, but I just don't go for these types of suspects that are pulled out of the air at later times and have no connection whatsoever.
It just turns into a wich hunt.

Now, if any kind of evidence surfaces that ties him to the case then I'm all ears, because someone with his medical background would fit nicely IMHO.

Until then -no.

[John G]

Hi John,

No, it is NOT a good point at all. It is wrong. See my explanations to GUT above.

Best regards, Pierre

Hi Pierre,

I'm afraid your argument amounts to mere speculation. In fact, as every victim from Tabram to Kelly was killed either on a weekend or a Bank Holiday, resulting in a fairly obvious correlation, a much more sensible conclusion is that the killer struck on those dates because he was in full-time employment.

[John G]

Hi,

You can´t apply experimental thinking to one serial killer or deduce from aggregate data to one single man. Especially not as research has shown this particular serial killer to be extremely rare in many aspects.

And the "selection" you mention is not random. That is the point. He made the selection himself. He chose the nights on which he would kill. At least we must hypothesize a rational killer, who was thinking in terms of what he wanted to do as well as how and when he wanted to do it.

So you have to make an idiographic analysis for this serial killer and try to connect many well established facts to one another to understand how he was working.

Actually, of all the sciences at hand, history is the best one to use if you want to get reliable and valid knowledge about him.

You should try to understand the particular, and to describe the unusual, instead of putting him in a frame of structural, nomothetic thinking.

This is one unique serial killer. It is not the economical and social creation of the British Empire.

Best regards, Pierre

Hello Pierre,

Firstly, he might not have been a rational-thinking serial killer, particularly if he was mentality ill or acting under the influence of drugs/alcohol. Secondly, although he chose the nights when he wanted to kill he may have chosen randomly. Thirdly, if was a rational serial killer it could be reasonably argued that we would be more likely to strike on darker nights, i.e. to reduce the risk of being discovered.

[Sam Flynn]

Thirdly, if was a rational serial killer it could be reasonably argued that he would be more likely to strike on darker nights

Which he did, apparently. That said, I'd observe that we only know the nights on which he killed - there were almost certainly many evenings when he went "hunting" without success.

[John G]

Which he did, apparently. That said, I'd observe that we only know the nights on which he killed - there were almost certainly many evenings when he went "hunting" without success.

Yes, they are very good points. And, as I noted in an early post, Stride was killed in a location-Dutfield's Yard-that was so dark that minutes earlier Lave struggled to see the door to enable him to re-enter the club.