The profession of Jack the Ripper.

[Craig H]

If JTR was a police official, how could he have gained medical / anatomy knowledge ?

Is there any other Police Official with medical background, apart from Robert Sagar (who started to study medicine ) ?

Would medical / anatomy be part of training for Police officials ?

I know some of the senior folk were ex-army. Not sure if these roles would have exposed them to anatomy ?

Rgds

Craig

[Craig H]

Henry Smith ("From Constable to Commissioner"

I've been reading Henry Smith's memoirs "From Constable to Commissioner' online at

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015030677150;view=1up;seq=180

It provides some interesting stories about the conflict between Metropolitan Police and City of London Police; including the story of when Commissioner Fraser (COLP) was ready to forcibly stop Metropolitan Police entering his territory.

Do others have examples of conflict between the two forces ?

Rgds

Craig

[Craig H]

Just responding to my own post (are you allowed to do that ????), I was reading about the City of London Police Hospital which was next door to the Bishopgate Police Station.

Does anyone know more about this hospital ? Was it operational in 1888 ?

Not sure if police officials would be involved in some capacity there or if it was run by doctors, nurses, etc

Craig

[Rosella]

If Jack was from the middle classes or a senior police official or ex army officer he needn't necessarily have studied anatomy in a formal sense, need he? There were plenty of medical books on anatomy available on second hand book stores to be purchased. Model Venuses with their innards exposed was discussed on another thread, they may well have been purchased as well. He could have viewed operations in hospitals on certain days if he had a ticket.

If the man hunted or had done so earlier in life he would have had some anotomical experience of seeing venison/ deer sliced up and hung, as they often were, in the outhouses on rural estates.

[ChrisGeorge]

Just responding to my own post (are you allowed to do that ????), I was reading about the City of London Police Hospital which was next door to the Bishopgate Police Station.

Does anyone know more about this hospital ? Was it operational in 1888 ?

Not sure if police officials would be involved in some capacity there or if it was run by doctors, nurses, etc

Craig

Hi Craig

It's okay to answer your own posts. I do it all the time. I also talk to myself.

Here is some information on the City of London Police Hospital. It opened in 1866. In 1936 the building was demolished and a foundation stone was laid in 1937 for a new 5-storey Art Deco Police Station on the same site. The new Bishopsgate police station opened in April 1939 with the hospital now in the same building, on the top floor. The hospital though closed in 1947 with the advent of Britain's National Health Service. See:

http://ezitis.myzen.co.uk/cityoflondonpolice.html

Best regards

Chris

[DJA]

Dear DJA,

when you say he quite likely knew who he was, can i ask do you mean knew for sure or suspected.

it just that I am interested in the clues you have given on your idea.

regards

Steve

Reckon Smith knew for sure.

RLS possibly had Sarcoidosis.

[Craig H]

Henry Smith mentions in "From Constable to Commissioner" that Robert Louis Stephenson was his cousin.

C

[Errata]

Reckon Smith knew for sure.

RLS possibly had Sarcoidosis.

The bird disease?

[Craig H]

Hi Rosella

Thx for your post.

Yes - I was also thinking about the hunting line.

Memoirs I've read of the time (including McNaghten and Smith) both talk about their passion for hunting.... and of course McNaghten talks about hunting jackels.

I also think there is something in this conflict between the two police forces. I can see how someone from City of London Police (or Railway Police) would have enjoyed seeing Metropolitan Police be embarrassed and ridiculed in public.

Also interesting in the Catherine Eddowes inquest how the Coroner or Jury foreman was critical of Metropolitan police practices.

I understand COL police were seen as more professional

Craig

[DJA]

Hang on,I'll ask my Cockatoo........................................

He reckons they catch it from humans.

[Craig H]

Hi Chris

Glad I'm not on my own in writing or talking to myself ?????

Thanks also for the link to information on City of London Police hospital.

Would be interesting to know if any local police officials developed any medical knowledge from their involvement there ?

Craig

[Rosella]

I think there was a fair bit of rivalry. That comes through in memoirs of various police officers including Smith. One of the main reasons the City Police differed from the Met was in experience in dealing with homicides. There were far far fewer murders committed in the City of London than in the Metropolitan District, only 15 between 1832 and 1892. The COL's main source of work for senior officers was, as you might imagine, in investigating financial frauds, thefts and scams.

The London Press found the COL officers from Smith down far more agreeable because they were more willing to speak to reporters, give a few pieces of information than the Met, whom journalists found incredibly frustrating, I'm sure. In concequence the COL police got a far better write-up in newspapers.

[el_pombo]

If JTR was a police official, how could he have gained medical / anatomy knowledge ?

Is there any other Police Official with medical background, apart from Robert Sagar (who started to study medicine ) ?

Would medical / anatomy be part of training for Police officials ?

I know some of the senior folk were ex-army. Not sure if these roles would have exposed them to anatomy ?

Rgds

Craig

Would anatomical knowledge without prior experience performing a surgery be sufficient to find and remove the organs in the way they were removed? (this is a genuine question, I still haven't made up my mind about this).

I remember the first time I saw a friend of mine rolling a joint, I said to him... "now I know how to roll a joint", to which he replied "you know how it's done, but you still don't know how to do it", the point being you're not necessarily ready to perform a complex task just by watching someone do it - it's not a very elegant example, but still a valid one, I think!

I'm going to quote an article on casebook:

In the opinion of most of the surgeons who examined the bodies, most believed that the killer had to have some degree of anatomical knowledge to do what he did. In one case he removed a kidney from the front rather than from the side, and did not damage any of the surrounding organs while doing so. In another case he removed the sexual organs with one clean stroke of the knife. Given the time circumstances of the crimes (outside, often in near total darkness, keeping one eye out for the approach of others, and under extremely tight time constraints), the Ripper almost certainly would have had some experience in using his knife.

http://www.casebook.org/intro.html

All the best!

[Rosella]

That goes back to the old arguments doesn't it that we will probably never know the answer to, vis. was this killer a surgeon of some experience, a hunter used to dressing animals like deer (which points to a country background) or a skilful slaughterman or butcher with or without medical dictionaries and text books and model Venuses?

[DJA]

a surgeon of some experience

.....who happens to have chalk in his pocket at the start of the teaching term.

Dr Phillips has already told us what he uses.

Crikey!