The profession of Jack the Ripper.

[David Orsam]

I do have a source, but I am waiting for my final piece of data before I reveal it.

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=9858

(see post #1 by Howard Brown, middle news clip)

There seems to be an element of confusion in that report.

After stating: "Last Monday, by order from headquarters, the extra forty were withdrawn", which is presumably a reference to Monday 15 July 1889 bearing in mind that the report is dated Saturday 20 July 1889, the report continues:

"On the following night, the 8th, the murder was committed".

But Alice McKenzie was murdered in the early hours of Wednesday 17 July 1889.

[DJA]

I do have a source, but I am waiting for my final piece of data before I reveal it.

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=9858

(see post #1 by Howard Brown, middle news clip)

Left column tends to confirm Topping's father's view on the Royal family

[jerryd]

Hi David,

I noticed that as well about the 8th. I am wondering if this particular reporting agency felt Alice was the 8th victim.

"On the following night, the 8th, the murder was committed".

i.e- On the following night, the 8th murder was committed.

1)Smith
2)Tabram
3)Nichols
4)Chapman
5)Stride
6)Eddowes
7)Kelly
8)McKenzie

[Monty]

Very good, Monty.

Monro did think that the murder on MacKenzie was done by Jack the Ripper. Anderson did not. And one doctor did, while the other one didn´t.

So what were those clear and obvious reasons, according to you?

Kind regards, Pierre

According to me?

Oh no, no, no.

According to procedure whenever a suspicious death had occurred and murder was suspected.

Monty

[Pierre]

According to me?

Oh no, no, no.

According to procedure whenever a suspicious death had occurred and murder was suspected.

Monty

So what were they?

Regards Pierre

[Monty]

Jerrd

would an order given the day before have been enacted upon before the murder took place, a genuine question, Perhaps Monty or someone else would like to comment on that as well

Steve

It depends when the orders came through. I cant see this act being covered in the Orders, as its specific to an investigation and the number of men was small. One suspects they would have ended their final shift in Whitechapel, and started the next back in their previous division.

At the same time, when one looks at that particular period, the investigation was in the midst of being downsized drastically, this is highlighted in the flurry of memos between Monro and HO. As today, funds were limited.

Just because forty men were removed, doesn't mean the police just gave up. Often its because they have exhausted all lines of enquiries, or things had settled down (which they had for ten months or so) and rather than have them sitting twiddling their thumbs, they would move them to where they were needed. We see this in almost every unsolved murder case.

We must remember that crime didn't stop when Jack was around.

Monty

[Monty]

OK, lets start at the beginning.

What is your primary source for this statement?

Hi Craig,

Monro deployed 3 sergeants and 39 constables on duty in Whitechapel, increasing the force with 22 extra men on the day of the murder of Alice MacKenzie. I wonder why.

http://www.casebook.org/victims/mckenzie.html

Regards, Pierre

Monty


A49301G/9

[RockySullivan]

Steve,

Sorry to keep referring you to the other forum but I have already written about it there. http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....ows#post279488 (post #45).

I'll have to correct myself in this thread, Burrows owned the carts. He hired a nightwatchman that was let go prior to the murder in Castle Alley.

Jerry I am really interested in your theory. do you suspect Long of being the ripper?

[Craig H]

The likely explanation is much more mundane, Craig. The Ripper killed at times when the streets were largely deserted of human and vehicular traffic. The quietness of the hour meant that the heavy boots of beat policemen could be heard from some distance away, thus alerting the killer to impending danger long before anyone appeared on the scene. George Morris confirmed this simple reality, as did Fanny Mortimer and a number of others.

Hi Garry

Yes - that makes sense. You wonder how they caught anyone wearing heavy boots ????

There was some posts a little while ago about the Police introducing quieter, rubber boots.

I also remember some posts from years ago about Forbes Winslow who thought he knew who the killer was. This person used to sit on the steps of St Pauls church. He said the killer had "snow" shoes which were quiet. I wonder if these "snow" shoes were actually these quieter rubber boots ? I'd never heard of "snow" shoes before

Rgds
Craig

[Elamarna]

It depends when the orders came through. I cant see this act being covered in the Orders, as its specific to an investigation and the number of men was small. One suspects they would have ended their final shift in Whitechapel, and started the next back in their previous division.


Monty

It would seem then that if the killer had been aware of the reduction instruction the day before, he would have been sensible to wait another dayto be sure it was in effect .

thanks Monty, very helpful.

congrats on the paperback release.

Steve

[David Orsam]

Hi David,

I noticed that as well about the 8th. I am wondering if this particular reporting agency felt Alice was the 8th victim.

"On the following night, the 8th, the murder was committed".

i.e- On the following night, the 8th murder was committed.

1)Smith
2)Tabram
3)Nichols
4)Chapman
5)Stride
6)Eddowes
7)Kelly
8)McKenzie

It's possible.

[David Orsam]

What is your primary source for this statement?

I'm actually going to help Pierre here because there is no way he is going to be able to provide primary sources for anything.

The below extract is from Police Orders of 19 July 1889 and authorises five additional sergeants and fifty additional police constables for Whitechapel, referencing a letter of authorisation from the Home Secretary dated 17 July 1889.

The flaw in Pierre's thinking is to assume that this automatically meant that the authorities knew that Alice McKenzie's killer was Jack the Ripper. The fact is that another woman had been brutally murdered in Whitechapel and the public would have demanded an increased police presence in the area, regardless of whether it was confirmed to be JTR or not.

[DJA]

I'd never heard of "snow" shoes before
Craig

Probably the forerunner of galoshes.

[jerryd]

Jerry I am really interested in your theory. do you suspect Long of being the ripper?

No I don't suspect him.

I do, however, suspect a certain policeman having been nearer the crime scene than we have been led to believe in the McKenzie murder. Close enough to the time of the murder to either have committed the crime or knew who did. That would be PC Walter Andrews, 272H. Unfortunately, that belief relies a lot on the witness Isaac Jacobs, and his testimony. But again, as far as being the Ripper, that would be a hard one to prove even if he did kill Alice.

[Whitechapel]

Hi Garry

Yes - that makes sense. You wonder how they caught anyone wearing heavy boots ????

There was some posts a little while ago about the Police introducing quieter, rubber boots.

I also remember some posts from years ago about Forbes Winslow who thought he knew who the killer was. This person used to sit on the steps of St Pauls church. He said the killer had "snow" shoes which were quiet. I wonder if these "snow" shoes were actually these quieter rubber boots ? I'd never heard of "snow" shoes before

Rgds
Craig

Didn't Cross/Lechmere say he heard Paul's footsteps just after he discovered Mary Ann Nichols ? I think the issue was whether he was wearing steelshod shoes.