The profession of Jack the Ripper.

[GUT]

Pierre you want to put down any material written by non academics without higher degrees.

Well have you ever heard of a bloke name of Winny Churchill wrote some spectacular works on History.

His "History of the English Speaking World" is a must read, as is The World Crisis, and of The Second World War. No PhDs there old chap.

So I guess we better throw them out.

[GUT]

How can it be arrogant not to read ripperology? I am reading a lot of literature especially within the field of sociology. Is it arrogant also that I donīt read literature about geography?




Regards Pierre

It can be ignorant not to read the basic building blocks of a topic you are trying to hold out some expertise in.

[Pierre]

No, I am a pebble cleaner for Brighton Borough Council.

Monty

OK, very funny. But if I would like to read one of your books, are they academic?

I am asking since I can not find any books written by you at the university.

Or are you perhaps a former police official?

Regards, Pierre

[John G]

Hi Monty,

Are you an academic historian perhaps?

Regards, Pierre

Are you? Forgive me, but your posts do somewhat give the impression of the stereotypical bearded sociology lecturer from a red brick university, or perhaps a higher education college in a small city. Nothing wrong with that of course, although for my part I do have some doubts about this mystery being solved by a sociologist. Just my opinion though, please feel free to disagree.

By the way, I think I may have asked this before: would you be kind enough to refer me to your published academic works, i.e. text books, peer-reviewed journal articles etc. I will then have the opportunity to evaluate your standing in your relevant field of expertise and, of course, the academic community generally.

[Pierre]

Are you? Forgive me, but your posts do somewhat give the impression of the stereotypical bearded sociology lecturer from a red brick university. Nothing wrong with that of course, although for my part I do have some doubts about this mystery being solved by a sociologist. Just my opinion though, please feel free to disagree.

By the way, I think I may have asked this before: would you be kind enough to refer me to your published academic works, i.e. text books, peer-reviewed journal articles etc. I will then have the opportunity to evaluate your standing in your relevant field of expertise and, of course, the academic community generally.

Hi John,

If I were not an academic historian and an academic sociologist I would tell you. And letīs not forget that criminology is a bransch of sociology.

Regards Pierre

[GUT]

Are you? Forgive me, but your posts do somewhat give the impression of the stereotypical bearded sociology lecturer from a red brick university, or perhaps a higher education college in a small city. Nothing wrong with that of course, although for my part I do have some doubts about this mystery being solved by a sociologist. Just my opinion though, please feel free to disagree.

By the way, I think I may have asked this before: would you be kind enough to refer me to your published academic works, i.e. text books, peer-reviewed journal articles etc. I will then have the opportunity to evaluate your standing in your relevant field of expertise and, of course, the academic community generally.

You honestly don't expect an answer do you John?

[GUT]

Hi John,

If I were not an academic historian and an academic sociologist I would tell you. And letīs not forget that criminology is a bransch of sociology.

Regards Pierre

Just like you told the truth about your suspect being a copper?

[GUT]

I would like to read one of your books, are they academic?

Cause f not old Trollierre won't read them, he's an academic snob you know.

[John G]

Hi John,

If I were not an academic historian and an academic sociologist I would tell you. And letīs not forget that criminology is a bransch of sociology.

Regards Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Ah, splendid, glad we've cleared that up. And it appears you're a criminologist as well. I must say, I'm very impressed.

Of course, as it appears that you are an academic historian/ sociologist/ criminologist, I'm sure you will have no difficulty, or objection, in referring me to a selection of your published academic works. So if you wouldn't mind please...

[John G]

You honestly don't expect an answer do you John?

Well, I thought I might get a reply in blank verse given Pierre's love of metaphors! Perhaps English Literature is not among one of his many talents, or academic successes.

I must say, though, I'm getting more and more impressed with Pierre. I mean, when I was at university academics used to have specialized fields of study, whereas it appears that Pierre has mastered multiple disciplines: sociology, history, criminology...

[Whitechapel]

Hi Steve my view is based on what I have read and seen and I have not heard of a policeman being put forward as JTR. However I didn't know for sure and that is why I said "I think I'm right . . .Unless others know otherwise". I was floating the boat.

Monty has mentioned DS Thick, can you please name your policemen suspects as all I have found is poets, authors, lunatics, doctors (quacks or otherwise) and merchant seamen.

I googled Monty and first on the list was a thread in Casebook about Cliques and cartels in Ripperology, Pierre you are going to love this

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5362&page=2

Btw from this thread and this other one

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=122688

Monty is Neil Bell author of Capturing Jack the Ripper: In the boots of a Bobby in Victorian London

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Capturing-Jack-The-Ripper-Victorian/dp/1445621622

However jokes aside, I'm looking forward to Monty's new book.

"Neil Bell is one of the most respected students of the Ripper case. He has been published extensively in specialist journals such as Ripperologist and Casebook Examiner, as well as for the BBC. Neil has written numerous articles upon the case and was the runner-up for the Jeremy Beadle Prize for the year’s best articles featured in Ripperologist magazine in 2009 and 2010. Neil has also recently been Police Advisor for the Channel Five documentary Jack the Ripper: The Definitive Story. He has provided information for the TV series Ripper Street."

I still think Pierre is doing original research, as on the subject of PC Jack he has moved the subject forward. The idea of PC Jack might be old but isn't that what a cold case review is about ? In my research on other things, not JTR, I can think the subject is dead and then discover something new and revolutionise it. I think love him or hate him (Marmite), Pierre is taking the subject to a new level.

Pierre doesn't have a background in ripperology but that has its advantages and disadvantages as yes he is going to stumble into old rehearsed debates but on the other hand he is looking at it with fresh eyes and might come up with something new to move the subject forward.

An excellent post by Craig H, listing likely PC Jack candidates. I have a degree but I don't really care where the ideas come from. There is such a limited database, that the only way of moving the subject forward is to broaden the number of people working on it.

My view is that like Sutcliffe, JTR was missed. He is there in the documentary sources and as much as he seemed like a ghost, he was regularly making mistakes and that the policemen interviewed him at least once. I think that explains why there was a gap in his monthly cycle as he laid low for a while. Also Israel Schwartz identified Elizabeth Stride and felt that JTR was still in the yard due to the behaviour of his pony. However both PC Smith and Schwartz describe men that they saw talking to Stride but none of them were dressed as policemen. Over to you Pierre.

[Rosella]

Two police officials who were named as suspects were Sir Robert Anderson, Assistant Commissioner, CID at the Met. He was named as a suspect in Knight's 'Jack the Ripper: The Final Solution' (it wasn't) and in 'The Ripper and the Royals'.

Melville Macnaghten was of course not at the Yard until 1889. Nevertheless, a French author, Sophie Herfort, in 'Jack L'Eventreur Demasque' asserted that he was the killer, and his motive was to embarrass Sir Charles Warren!

Monty is Neil Bell. I think his 'Capturing Jack the Ripper: In the Boots of a Bobby in Victorian London' is essential reading. You can get it on Amazon.

[John G]

Sergeant Thick is an interesting character. There were, I believe, accusations of corruption against him prior to 1888. And, as I've noted previously, it has been suggested that his nickname, Johnny Upright, was meant ironically. In fact, a detective sergeant Benjamin Leeson, who once served under Thick, seemed to be on the verge of exposing him: in his memoirs, published in 1934, he wrote, "By this time I had learned the nickname of the detectives, the senior was "Tommy Upright", and the two others "Masher" and "Chinaman". How they came about these names will be matter for another chapter." Interestingly, the chapter was ultimately omitted from the book.

Thick also arrested John Pizer, an early suspect known as "Leather Apron", but has subsequently been accused of attempting to frame the man, i.e. by making libellous comments against him.

And on September 10 1889, following the discovery of the Pinchin Street Torso, and exactly one year after Thick's arrest of Pizer, a Mr HT Haslewood of Tottenham wrote to the Home Office claiming, "I have very good grounds to believe that the person who has committed the Whitechapel Murders is a member of the police force."

The following month he sent another letter naming Thick as the Ripper, and suggesting that he caught syphilis from prostitutes.

Sergeant Thick also lived a stone's throw away from Berner Street, and very close to Pinchin Street. His first major involvement in the Whitechapel Murders was when he examined Annie Chapman's body in the mortuary- he also played an active part in visiting the common lodging houses and arrested Pizer two days later.

He was also involved in the Kelly murder investigation, arriving at the scene within an hour of the body being discovered. He was subsequently involved in making inquiries.

For anyone that's interested there is some excellent information about this individual in Tom Westcott's book, The Bank Holiday Murders, which I can strongly recommend.

[Wickerman]

...
My view is that like Sutcliffe, JTR was missed. He is there in the documentary sources and as much as he seemed like a ghost, he was regularly making mistakes and that the policemen interviewed him at least once. I think that explains why there was a gap in his monthly cycle as he laid low for a while. Also Israel Schwartz identified Elizabeth Stride and felt that JTR was still in the yard due to the behaviour of his pony. However both PC Smith and Schwartz describe men that they saw talking to Stride but none of them were dressed as policemen. Over to you Pierre.

Schwartz had a pony?, are you trying to throw Pierre off?


Ok, joking aside (I know who you meant), I agree, the killer was likely interviewed, so in that respect 'known', and not some unknown stranger to the case.

[Monty]

I hope you have completed the correct RIPA form Whitechapel,

Otherwise your searches on me could touch upon the illegal.

Monty