The profession of Jack the Ripper.

[David Orsam]

Isn't this why the police were referred to as "The Boys In Blue"?

And, indeed, the thin blue line.

[Rosella]

Well, these past dozen or more posts have been very revealing. If we didn't know before we do now that Pierre doesn't know about Monty's well researched book or who he is. He also doesn't seem to know what position in the force senior police officials held and even more startling, he didn't know the colour of 19th century police uniforms.

[Wickerman]

Well, these past dozen or more posts have been very revealing. If we didn't know before we do now that Pierre doesn't know about Monty's well researched book or who he is. He also doesn't seem to know what position in the force senior police officials held and even more startling, he didn't know the colour of 19th century police uniforms.

Rather odd when we learn more about the theorist than the theory.

[Whitechapel]

Lol nor did I. However I think rather than score points, it's more important that this police theory is debated. There is a lot of expertise on here with regard to police uniforms and this is important to either support or contradict part of Pierre's theory.

As much as many on here would hate to admit it, Pierre is doing original research. Bernard Brown has written an excellent paper on the possibility of a railway policeman as JTR, but I think I'm right in saying Pierre is the first person to put forward the theory that a Metropolitan or City policeman was the JTR. Unless others on the forum know otherwise.

I'm just a cadet and it is hard to know who everyone is on here as some of us use nicknames rather than our own names and don't include a resume. I think Pierre is very defensive as he has had a lot of criticism but of course he is on here to discuss his ideas and have some help. In turn debating his ideas moves the subject forward and may help other researchers.

I think all of us would love to have a Tardis and go back in time and visit key points to answer question. It is the same with all historical/archaeological research but you are limited by the sources available. I think the value of forums like this as real time everyone can put their heads together and this is important as no one person will crack it, if this is ever possible.

Happy New Year to all on Casebook Ripper and looking further down the line to more Pierre revelations and other as yet unseen developments that will move the subject forward.

[GUT]

Well, these past dozen or more posts have been very revealing. If we didn't know before we do now that Pierre doesn't know about Monty's well researched book or who he is. He also doesn't seem to know what position in the force senior police officials held and even more startling, he didn't know the colour of 19th century police uniforms.

He seems proud of his ignorance.

[Hercule Poirot]

Well, these past dozen or more posts have been very revealing. If we didn't know before we do now that Pierre doesn't know about Monty's well researched book or who he is. He also doesn't seem to know what position in the force senior police officials held and even more startling, he didn't know the colour of 19th century police uniforms.

Same thing for me. Neil Bell's book is a reference one must own. I'm finishing a historical novel and have refered to it many times to make sure ways and manners I may use have a solid basis.

I also buy Ripper books not because I think the theories are valid but to better understand the Ripper realm. Simon Wood's Deconstructing Jack, for example, challenges us which is also an essential reference. Each author's theory has it's pros and cons and most of them introduce, if not new evidence, at least a different perspective.

I'm not a Ripper expert but at least I'm aware of various layers of knowledge required to better understand the Ripper world: historical facts, legal evidence, psychology, sociology, archeological forensics, just to name a few. We have people here contributing in each and every layer, newbies and seniors which makes it a fascinating work in progress.

Ripperology not only involves super human experts but also many 'observers' who often come out with an issue, a point of view others may have neglected or ignored. The humble contribution of all (and I must say that nobody pretends to be world's best ripperologist) enrich the knowledge basis this forum offers.

I would even add that if the real Ripper was found, this forum would still have a fundamental purpose: better understanding the era, the victorian society, the East End as well as the murderer himself, his victims.

I honestly believe each and everyone of us keep doing their Ripperology homework every day not because we hope obtaining a PHD but simply because the Ripper case exists and we are passionately involved in it.

Respectfully,
Hercule Poirot

Sorry for my English, my basic language being French.

[Elamarna]

Lol nor did I. However I think rather than score points, it's more important that this police theory is debated. There is a lot of expertise on here with regard to police uniforms and this is important to either support or contradict part of Pierre's theory.

As much as many on here would hate to admit it, Pierre is doing original research. Bernard Brown has written an excellent paper on the possibility of a railway policeman as JTR, but I think I'm right in saying Pierre is the first person to put forward the theory that a Metropolitan or City policeman was the JTR. Unless others on the forum know otherwise.

I'm just a cadet and it is hard to know who everyone is on here as some of us use nicknames rather than our own names and don't include a resume. I think Pierre is very defensive as he has had a lot of criticism but of course he is on here to discuss his ideas and have some help. In turn debating his ideas moves the subject forward and may help other researchers.

I think all of us would love to have a Tardis and go back in time and visit key points to answer question. It is the same with all historical/archaeological research but you are limited by the sources available. I think the value of forums like this as real time everyone can put their heads together and this is important as no one person will crack it, if this is ever possible.

Happy New Year to all on Casebook Ripper and looking further down the line to more Pierre revelations and other as yet unseen developments that will move the subject forward.

hi Whitechapel,

Pierre is certainly not the first to suggest a police officer, just go to the suspect page of the message board and check the General suspect folder you will find quite a few.

And I hate to dispel your view, but his Research is not original, can I ask why you think it is, this is a genuine question i know some of the newer members seem to take this view. I honestly would like to know what you base this assessment on.

steve

[Rosella]

I agree Hercule, the more we read the more we learn,and please don't apologise for your English, which is excellent.

[Hercule Poirot]

He seems proud of his ignorance.

I don't think so. To say the least, he is learning as well as introducing (not as fast as many would wish) elements he became aware of and forming a potentail theory that could shake us all. So let's take a deep breath, watch our words and wait and see what happens.

Hey even Max Planck tought Einsten was dumb as a rock with is theories only to find out he was dead right and became one of his closest friends!!!

Cheers,
Hercule Poirot

[Mayerling]

I don't understand the relevance of Simon Wood and Russel Edward's professions or academical degrees. If a person who never went to school says 2 + 2 = 4, is that person automatically wrong because he doesn't have a diploma? Or if that person is a self-taught mathematician and made an important discovery in that field should his theory be disregarded because he never went to university?

Every person with an interest in mathematics are his peers.

Knowledge is not private property, many discoveries have been made and are still made by self-taught investigators.

I'm a self-taught computer programmer and I've been working alongside people with PhD's for all my life in several companies without my lack of an academical degree ever being an issue.

Sorry for my poor English, my native language is Portuguese.

Regards.

Hi Pombo,

Don't worry about your grasp of English - it was fine. You made your point abundantly clear and it was totally valid.

Jeff

[el_pombo]

Hi Pombo,

Don't worry about your grasp of English - it was fine. You made your point abundantly clear and it was totally valid.

Jeff

Thank you, Mayerling.

Regards.

[GUT]

I don't think so. To say the least, he is learning as well as introducing (not as fast as many would wish) elements he became aware of and forming a potentail theory that could shake us all. So let's take a deep breath, watch our words and wait and see what happens.

Hey even Max Planck tought Einsten was dumb as a rock with is theories only to find out he was dead right and became one of his closest friends!!!

Cheers,
Hercule Poirot

Please tell me you aren't comparing Pierre to one of the world's greatest minds, who actually studied those who set the ground work he built on.

When Pierre says he has no idea who various eminent authors in the field are because he doesn't read them that displays and arrogance that to me is unbelievable.

And when someone like Monty (who probably knows as much, or more about LVP policing as anyone alive) tells him he is wrong about something as simple as police uniform colours and Pierre is dismissive it is an absolute joke and robs him of any credibility that he may have had.

[Hercule Poirot]

Please tell me you aren't comparing Pierre to one of the world's greatest minds, who actually studied those who set the ground work he built on.

When Pierre says he has no idea who various eminent authors in the field are because he doesn't read them that displays and arrogance that to me is unbelievable.

And when someone like Monty (who probably knows as much, or more about LVP policing as anyone alive) tells him he is wrong about something as simple as police uniform colours and Pierre is dismissive it is an absolute joke and robs him of any credibility that he may have had.

Of course not Gut.

Hopefully what I've said will make Pierre reconsider the need for him to know who are the seniors in the ripperology domain. It's not a question of academic basis but strictly a generally accepted leadership proven by their experience, knowledge, and rigorous methods which no university will ever be able to deliver.

Learning does not mean putting aside one's opinion but to better understand the reality he will face whenever one wishes to express an opinion no matter if he likes it or not. It's all about the question of real peers.

Now this being said, I still think we should watch and wait, be polite and enjoy the ride others may be offering us on this forum.

Respecfully,
hercule Poirot

[Craig H]

Possible Police Official suspects

The OP about JTR possibly being a police official prompted me to do some more reading about the London police force.

I wasn't aware about how Charles Warren was so unpopular, especially after the November 1887 "Bloody Sunday" violence between police and protesting unemployed workers (2 deaths and 100 injuries). A quote I found was "the press attacked the 'Met' force and frequently compared it's work unfavourably with that of the 'City of London Police'."

I also read about concerns of undermanning police stations, and poor police discipline (constables sacked for drinking on the job, etc)

There may have been a push to have Warren replaced. I also read how the new Police Leadership led to a stronger, more positive police force. It also allowed Moro to appoint Macnaghten (who had been blocked by Warren)

This could explain some co-incidence in dates. Robert Anderson was appointed Assistant Commissioner the day Polly Nichols died. Warren resigned the day of Kelly's murder.

Pierre gave several clues on his suspect :- an official of Scotland Yard / Metropolitan Police (not London City Policy), born before 1858, well educated, had lived in an expensive home at some stage, thought he was smarter, did not live in the local Whitechapel area, was not a police constable.

I found a great book which listed all Police force of 1888

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=9QerSzv2RDQC&pg=PA130&lpg=PA130&dq=%22sir+james+fraser%22+london+police&source=bl&ots=9_q9J76J8q&sig=LvKR26LVGvBmCUnv7lUPx1G0fZY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwii99HDvP3JAhWDJKYKHebAARwQ6AEIRDAI#v=onepage&q=%22sir%20james%20fraser%22%20london%20police&f=false

I came down to a short list of 10 who could meet the criteria.

The most obvious ones:

• Alexander Carmichael Bruce (Assistant Commissioner of Metro Police) - previously a barrister (well educated), the only one living in wealth home with servants, right location
• Inspector William Causby
• Sergeant Amos Dudman
• Detective Sergeant Patrick Enright
• Sergeant Henry Kerby / Kirby - was fired for drinking on the job. Barnard Brown wrote an article on him (does anyone have a copy ?)
• Chief Inspector John George Littlechild
• Detective Constable Robert Sagar - started a medicine degree before transferring to Police. On retirement, described as one of the smartest police detectives. Technically was with City Police not Metro
• Major Henry Smith -
• Inspector John Spratling
• Sergeant Stephen White
• Inspector Richard Webb

We're heading away for a few days. Interested in others feedback on this

Rgds
Craig

[Craig H]

The book I mentioned was
Jack the Ripper: An Encyclopedia
By John J. Eddleston