The profession of Jack the Ripper.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Pierre
that's now three of us that have specifically asked that you learn how to use the quote function correctly.

your a smart guy-you went to college. Im sure you can figure it out.

[Elamarna]

Hi Pierre
that's now three of us that have specifically asked that you learn how to use the quote function correctly.

your a smart guy-you went to college. Im sure you can figure it out.

Abby

you know his reply will be "it is my right to reply how I like."

Steve

[John G]

Pretty much agree here

but I think serial killers like mullins, chase, woodcock could be pretty much rightfully classified as dis organized. and note that they were all officially diagnosed as being insane.

There are examples of other killers, serial or not, who have also been disorganized-or I would say they were at least. typically theyre young and/or its their first,inexperienced, perhaps trigger, kill, and/or insane.

Characteristics are they happen upon victims at random, or by chance, use whats available to kill, don't necessarily plan and/ or leave leave clues.

I think the organized/disorganized/mixed classification can be somewhat useful, but I think most experts agree its outdated and rather ambiguous.

so for example if you were to find a victim dead in a park, or in another public place and evidence points to them being killed there, and the murder weapon was something like a stick or some weapon found at the scene I think disorganized and the profile that goes with it would probably be correct.

Hi Abby,

Yes, I think your right about Mullins and Chase being disorganized. However, Robert Napper, who was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and Aspergers' syndrome, is an excellent example of a serial killer who clearly exhibited both organized and disorganized traits.

Thus, he murdered and sexually assaulted Rachel Nickell in a public park-Wimbledon Common-in front of her young son in an attack that lasted over 3 minutes. She was also stabbed 49 times (reminiscent of Tabram?). This was clearly high risk, as the attack took place in broad daylight at a time when over 500 people were crisscrossing the Common, including the Commissioner's own wife. And when he left, he left behind a footprint and traces of his DNA.

All of this, of course, suggests a disorganized killer. However, contrastingly he is also suspected of being the Green Chain Rapist, who carried out at least 70 attacks, in public parks and commons. And after his arrest, the police found a toolbox, containing a torch, restraining cord, and medical notes on how to torture people.

The police also found an A-Z, with certain pages marked with thick black dots, highlighting locations of assaults, or surveillance points where he could sit and observe potential victims without being seen (he also made brief notes next to some addresses.)

In fact, it was thought that he stalked victims in their homes, watching them for days before choosing his moment of attack. The detectives also found an illustration of the neck, showing how various human muscles work and interact: the medical diagrams suggested that he had cut Rachel Nickell's throat deliberately to stop her from screaming.

Of course, all of this is suggestive of a much more organised killer, and it seems to me that JtR may well fall in the same category; a killer with both significant organized and disorganized elements.

[Pierre]

David,

thank you for explaining that too me, we really should not doubt him I know.

Hi Steve,

you answered David when he suggested that I "misunderstood" the map. But David misunderstood what I wrote since I merely asked "Where is the third entrance/exit?"

As you (and also David now) can see, that is a very simple question.

And Steve - you have been repeating as a "fact" that Mitre Square was a "street". when I have said it was more like a yard.

But even in 1888 there were people perceiving of Mitre Square as a yard:

”Mitre Square is a sort of huge yard...”

(Sunderland Daily Echo and Shipping Gazette - Monday 01 October 1888).

But I have another question for you, Steve: Do you think that the killer could have used an empty house in Mitre Square for killing and mutilating Eddowes - and afterwards placed her in the square?

There was also a very small yard behind the site where they found the body. Could he have used it?

(What arguments could there be for and against that?)

This Goad´s Map here is from 1887 but in 1888, according to Sugden, there were three empty houses (in the green circle) just beside the spot where they found Eddowes (the red x).

Regards, Pierre

[David Orsam]

But David misunderstood what I wrote since I merely asked "Where is the third entrance/exit?"

As you (and also David now) can see, that is a very simple question.

Pierre, as usual, is absolutely right. I completely misunderstood the purpose of him asking where the third entrance was on the map. In asking that question, I now see that he fully understood the Goad map and always knew where the third entrance was. He was merely demonstrating to everyone what a simple question it actually was.

And when he said: "Steve, there are lots of people here with lots of knowledge about lots of facts. I have very little such knowledge" it was in no way an admission that he had failed to understand the map and had missed the whereabouts of the third entrance.

For myself, I frequently ask questions on this forum to which I already know the answer. Such as: How is possible that Pierre is such a genius that has solved the 127 year old mystery of Jack the Ripper's identity?

[David Orsam]

Out of interest Whitechapel, do you share my belief (and, I think, Pierre's) that the killer was so organised that he knew in advance where he was going to commit the murders and communicated that information to the police (and, in the case of Mary Kelly, to the newspapers)?

You didn't fancy answering this question then, Whitechapel?

[Monty]

As facts are of no use here...

...The three empty houses were previously a coffee shop.

They were sealed, and inspected by constables under Collards instruction, and found to be undisturbed.

Monty

[Elamarna]

[B]Hi Steve,




But I have another question for you, Steve: Do you think that the killer could have used an empty house in Mitre Square for killing and mutilating Eddowes - and afterwards placed her in the square?

There was also a very small yard behind the site where they found the body. Could he have used it?

(What arguments could there be for and against that?)

This Goad´s Map here is from 1887 but in 1888, according to Sugden, there were three empty houses (in the green circle) just beside the spot where they found Eddowes (the red x).

Regards, Pierre

Just to give you hints it has been discussed often,

for: it would have allowed longer to do the murder.

Against: the yard was locked, no blood trails from the houses, or blood in the houses.

However to repeat the sort of answer you have given in the past:

"do one´s homework instead?"

Stop asking us to do your research, go an read the casebook:

[Elamarna]

As facts are of no use here...

...The three empty houses were previously a coffee shop.

They were sealed, and inspected by constables under Collards instruction, and found to be undisturbed.

Monty

Monty

sorry i didn't see you had already answered

Steve

[Monty]

Monty

sorry i didn't see you had already answered

Steve

No worries Steve,

The yard was Heydemanns Yard. Watkins checked it whilst he waited for Morris to fetch assistance, and found the gate locked.

Monty

[Monty]

No worries Steve,

The yard was Heydemanns Yard. Watkins checked it whilst he waited for Morris to fetch assistance, and found the gate locked.

Monty

PS my turn to apologise Steve,

I see you have addressed that issue. Sorry.

Monty

[Elamarna]

No worries Steve,

The yard was Heydemanns Yard. Watkins checked it whilst he waited for Morris to fetch assistance, and found the gate locked.

Monty

Monty


thanks for confirming that, without checking, i could not remember if it was Watkins, or another officer who arrived later.

Steve

[Pierre]

As facts are of no use here...

...The three empty houses were previously a coffee shop.

They were sealed, and inspected by constables under Collards instruction, and found to be undisturbed.

Monty

Great, thanks!

Regards, Pierre

[Monty]

Yes Steve,

Watkins also checked Eddowes clothing, and found finger smears on her chemise.

Also, as an add on, the sewer system in the square was also searched....also ;-)

Monty

[Michael W Richards]

Yes Steve,

Watkins also checked Eddowes clothing, and found finger smears on her chemise.

Also, as an add on, the sewer system in the square was also searched....also ;-)

Monty

Cheers Monty, I recall a source mentioning that there was a pub in operation in Mitre Square previous to the "Ripper" period, do you know anything about that?