The profession of Jack the Ripper.

[Joshua Rogan]

Friday 9th November was the last time Joe Barnett visited Mary Ann Kelly.

She was murdered overnight, ie Saturday morning, the 10th.

I think....I hope....

Having a battle with CFS. My apology.

It does say that about Joe's visit on the victim's page, but I think that may be a mistake. I'm pretty sure she was discovered on the morning of the 9th, the day of the Lord Mayor's Show.

I hope you're feeling better soon

[DJA]

You are correct Red.

Picked up the strep infection in 1982. Not gonna get better.

Thanks though

[Wickerman]

Friday 9th November was the last time Joe Barnett visited Mary Ann Kelly.

She was murdered overnight, ie Saturday morning, the 10th.

I think....I hope....

Having a battle with CFS. My apology.

CFS 1
DJA 0

[DJA]

CFS 2
DJA 1

Fixed

Been one of those days.

[jerryd]

I think the reason that the first on scene Cross/Lechmere and Mountain/Andrews have been suggested as possible suspects is that JTR is perceived as a ghost. However the reason that JTR seems invisible is that he is not seen fleeing along the streets. However this could be because he had a second exit prepared, the entrance to a yard, he could hide in.

Nichols body was across from the entrance to Brown's stableyard
Chapman's body was found in Hanbury Street yard
Stride's body was found in Dutfield yard
Eddowes body was found in Mitre Square
Kelly's body was found in a room in Miller's Court

I noticed this because jerry mentioned that Alice McKenzie was found in front of a doorway behind some carts in Castle Alley where X marked the spot.

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=279488&highlight=burrows#post279488

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=1320&highlight=burrows

I think the reason why blood was still flowing from McKenzie's neck is that JTR had to act quick. The neck was severed to the bone to the point of decapitation (with all the bodies) because he wanted them dead so they couldn't struggle and it was easier to extract organs. This process of making cuts in the body has to be factored into the timing as he had already begun to cut her open when he was disturbed by Andrews and had to use the escape route.

Btw Colin Wilson claimed to have invented the term 'ripperology' in 1972. We are all ripperologists if we are on this forum.

Hi Whitehapel.

No Ghost at all.

The actual reason is the blood evidence that is presented at the crime scene. Isaac Jacobs sees blood spurting from the neck. How many minutes were there from the time he (Isaacs) followed Andrews down to the body and the time Andrews found the body?

[Pierre]

Given my venerable age of 67, I shall certainly not sacrifice 30 years. You probably didn't know that. LOL

I've been however interested in this case for 7-8 years now and never felt I was sacrificing years or even wasting my time. I don't think I'll be writing a non-fiction Ripper book either, four other book projects are waiting for me. But one thing I know is I'll keep enjoying learning more each day about the Ripper Realm. It's what Ripperology is all about, enjoying it not as a silly game but a great challange. From the moment you feel you've been condemmed to spend 30 years or less in a sort of Ripper cell, it's time to free yourself and forget it.

Cheers,
Hercule Poirot

Good to hear that you got into this interest so late. Congratulations! You will not be a victim of the vampire.

Kind regards, Pierre

[Pierre]

Maybe the cachous were code for 'Catch us' rather than cautious. I am not proposing that JTR was Gollum, he could have been using 'the royal we' or 'us' refers to Schwartz sighting of Lipski and the other one who threw Liz Stride to the ground.

I think the reason that the first on scene Cross/Lechmere and Mountain/Andrews have been suggested as possible suspects is that JTR is perceived as a ghost. However the reason that JTR seems invisible is that he is not seen fleeing along the streets. However this could be because he had a second exit prepared, the entrance to a yard, he could hide in.

Nichols body was across from the entrance to Brown's stableyard
Chapman's body was found in Hanbury Street yard
Stride's body was found in Dutfield yard
Eddowes body was found in Mitre Square
Kelly's body was found in a room in Miller's Court

Hi Whitechapel.

I have previously postulated that the killer was discovered by Lechmere when he performed mutilations on Nichols and therefore changed his MO by using courtyards instead. A simple explanation.


I noticed this because jerry mentioned that Alice McKenzie was found in front of a doorway behind some carts in Castle Alley where X marked the spot.

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=279488&highlight=burrows#post279488

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=1320&highlight=burrows

I think the reason why blood was still flowing from McKenzie's neck is that JTR had to act quick. The neck was severed to the bone to the point of decapitation (with all the bodies) because he wanted them dead so they couldn't struggle and it was easier to extract organs. This process of making cuts in the body has to be factored into the timing as he had already begun to cut her open when he was disturbed by Andrews and had to use the escape route.

Btw Colin Wilson claimed to have invented the term 'ripperology' in 1972. We are all ripperologists if we are on this forum.

Regards, Pierre

[Elamarna]

Yesterday Pierre said that:

"Yes, it is intriguing. And he must have thought so himself, because he changed his MO after Polly Nichols. No more working on the street."

today this has been slightly changed

"I have previously postulated that the killer was discovered by Lechmere when he performed mutilations on Nichols and therefore changed his MO by using courtyards instead. A simple explanation."


the comments made yesterday in post 751 have not however been addressed

"Mitre Square was and is a street, it was not an enclosed yard. it was an open public thoroughfare."

"The Square was also patrolled by two police officers, one of whom actually patrolled the square on his beat, the other officers beat walked down Church Passage and checked the square without entering it."

[Whitechapel]

Yesterday Pierre said that:

"Yes, it is intriguing. And he must have thought so himself, because he changed his MO after Polly Nichols. No more working on the street."

today this has been slightly changed

"I have previously postulated that the killer was discovered by Lechmere when he performed mutilations on Nichols and therefore changed his MO by using courtyards instead. A simple explanation."


the comments made yesterday in post 751 have not however been addressed

"Mitre Square was and is a street, it was not an enclosed yard. it was an open public thoroughfare."

"The Square was also patrolled by two police officers, one of whom actually patrolled the square on his beat, the other officers beat walked down Church Passage and checked the square without entering it."

Since Mitre Square was the second murder in the double event I would suggest that JTR hadn't satisfied his URGE. His first planned attack on Stride in a yard (Dutfield Yard) had been a case of coitus interruptus, so he moved back to the the default setting of 'the street' at Mitre Square. He had to act quickly to kill Eddowes and extract the organs and satisfy his URGE, but it was a calculated risk he was willing to take but he was seen by a witness when he was with Eddowes.

[Pierre]

Could the poster explain please?


"Yes, it is intriguing. And he must have thought so himself, because he changed his MO after Polly Nichols. No more working on the street."

Pardon?
Mitre Square was and is a street,

No, it was a "square" and more like a yard than a street.

elamarna

Regards, Pierre

[Joshua Rogan]

I have previously postulated that the killer was discovered by Lechmere when he performed mutilations on Nichols and therefore changed his MO by using courtyards instead. A simple explanation.

Did the victims have no say about where they ended up?

Is it a possibility that Nichols and her killer were hoping to enter the yard but found it unexpectedly locked?

[Rosella]

More a case of homicidal interruptus surely Whitechapel, considering Jack didn't have intercourse with any of his victims as far as is known? IMO the yard/club yard situation was purely opportunistic as both Chapman and Kelly either accompanied him willingly into these dark locales or actually took him there. If there had been another woman, another dark and deserted street situation and he had the urge to kill, then Jack would have acted in the same way as in Bucks Row, IMO.

[Pierre]

Did the victims have no say about where they ended up?

Being prostitutes, probably not much.

Is it a possibility that Nichols and her killer were hoping to enter the yard but found it unexpectedly locked?

If so, would the killer take the risk of murdering and mutilating her after such an unexpected event which would alter the conditions of the murder location?

Regards Pierre

[Elamarna]

I would suggest that JTR hadn't satisfied his URGE. His first planned attack on Stride in a yard (Dutfield Yard) had been a case of coitus interruptus, .

Probably but we cannot be 100% sure. The case against Stride still stands for many, personally i agree with you.

but it was a calculated risk he was willing to take but he was seen by a witness when he was with Eddowes.

Even this we cannot be sure about, a man and a woman were seen, standing near to church passage, we only assume they were Eddowes and Killer.

indeed there is also a case for the killer having been seen by a police officer, although unproven, the report comes from more than one source and should not be completely ignored.

if we count Alice, that was not in a yard. I see no firm evidence to say the killer changed his killing place after Bucks Row

[Elamarna]

"No, it was a "square" and more like a yard than a street."


No Pierre, it was and is a public thoroughfare with 3 entrances/exits. It was regularly patrolled by 2 separate police beats. it is certainly not a yard.

Courtyards are often defined as—private open spaces surrounded by walls or buildings, such as the backyard in Hanbury Street.

Can I ask if have you actually been to Mitre Square rather than just relying on a map.
yet again something we will have to disagree on.