Social class of Jack the Ripper

[DJA]

The only logical explanation, as I see it, is that she was meeting someone and if she thought she knew who the killer was, someone who she hoped would help her get the reward for his capture. Sadly she was wrong.

Yep. Well....sorta. Non capture really.
She met with Jack the Ripper again to collect the remainder after celebrating with the down payment.

Her Bright's Disease was due to a Streptococcus pyogenes infection caught in 1867.

She and Nichols were Jack's inpatients together in 1867.

The other Three also had obvious links to him.

[curious4]

Yep. Well....sorta. Non capture really.
She met with Jack the Ripper again to collect the remainder after celebrating with the down payment.

Her Bright's Disease was due to a Streptococcus pyogenes infection caught in 1867.

She and Nichols were Jack's inpatients together in 1867.

The other Three also had obvious links to him.

Wouldn't she be dead? Strep infection 1867?

C4

[DJA]

The fact that whoever she met (and she seems to have trusted him ) sliced her up!

Correct.

Wasn't the guy in the passage though.

[DJA]

Wouldn't she be dead? Strep infection 1867?

C4

My father lasted almost 30 years.

Different form of Strep,however had mine for 33years and almost 4 months.

Not sure about my sister's. 20 to 30 years. She reckons all her life.

Family susceptibility like Eddowes.

[curious4]

My father lasted almost 30 years.

Different form of Strep,however had mine for 33years and almost 4 months.

Not sure about my sister's. 20 to 30 years. She reckons all her life.

Family susceptibility like Eddowes.

With all due respect, none of you would be up to a 30 mile trek with hard physical work at the end of it though. And Kate did work, what money there was to be earned, she earned, hence "new" coat and Kelly's boots.

Cheers
C4

[Sam Flynn]

The fact that whoever she met (and she seems to have trusted him - hand on chest) sliced her up, or led her to someone else who did, is a pretty good pointer that she was wrong!

I don't think she was "wrong", because I don't believe that Eddowes really had a theory as to the killer's identity at all. I think it's a made-up story, or at best a mistake. Consider the following:

"Some extraordinary stories are being told by people who allege that they could easily identify the murderer. A reporter who visited St George's East infirmary interviewed, in the ward devoted to unfortunates, a woman named Jenny, who stated that she was absolutely sure of the identity of the murderer."

This story of "Infirmary Jenny" appeared in the East London Observer of 13th October 1888, but guess what story appears in the very next paragraph? None other than Eddowes' "I think I know him" story, for which this particular newspaper is the primary - only? - source.

"A reporter gleaned some curious information from the Casual Ward Superintendent of Mile End, regarding Kate Eddowes, the Mitre-square victim. She was formerly well-known in the casual wards there, but had disappeared for a considerable time until the Friday preceding her murder. Asking the woman where she had been in the interval, the superintendent was met with the reply, that she had been in the country "hopping". "But," added the woman, "I have come back to earn the reward offered for the apprehension of the Whitechapel murderer. I think I know him."

Things to note:

- Eddowes was not a permanent resident of the Casual Ward (by definition, few were), so why should this superintendent have noticed her absence?

- Details of the hopping expedition had been widely covered in the papers, so the superintendent's reference to it can't be taken to imply that he got this information from Eddowes.

- The issue of a reward was not discussed in the papers until mid/late September, when Eddowes was away in the fields of Kent. In contrast, "reward-talk" was widespread after Eddowes' death, and certainly was by the time the superintendent told his story to the East London Observer.

I conclude from all this that Eddowes' claiming to return to London to pick up the reward was highly unlikely, and that this, together with the story that she thought she knew the killer, is hugely suspect. It seems to me that the whole thing was either a complete fiction or a misattribution, perpetrated by the Casual Ward superintendent, the Observer, or both.

[curious4]

I don't think she was "wrong", because I don't believe that Eddowes really had a theory as to the killer's identity at all. I think it's a made-up story, or at best a mistake. Consider the following:

"Some extraordinary stories are being told by people who allege that they could easily identify the murderer. A reporter who visited St George's East infirmary interviewed, in the ward devoted to unfortunates, a woman named Jenny, who stated that she was absolutely sure of the identity of the murderer."

This story of "Infirmary Jenny" appeared in the East London Observer of 13th October 1888, but guess what story appears in the very next paragraph? None other than Eddowes' "I think I know him" story, for which this particular newspaper is the primary - only? - source.

"A reporter gleaned some curious information from the Casual Ward Superintendent of Mile End, regarding Kate Eddowes, the Mitre-square victim. She was formerly well-known in the casual wards there, but had disappeared for a considerable time until the Friday preceding her murder. Asking the woman where she had been in the interval, the superintendent was met with the reply, that she had been in the country "hopping". "But," added the woman, "I have come back to earn the reward offered for the apprehension of the Whitechapel murderer. I think I know him."

Things to note:

- Eddowes was not a permanent resident of the Casual Ward (by definition, few were), so why should this superintendent have noticed her absence?

- Details of the hopping expedition had been widely covered in the papers, so the superintendent's reference to it can't be taken to imply that he got this information from Eddowes.

- The issue of a reward was not discussed in the papers until mid/late September, when Eddowes was away in the fields of Kent. In contrast, "reward-talk" was widespread after Eddowes' death, and certainly was by the time the superintendent told his story to the East London Observer.

I conclude from all this that Eddowes' claiming to return to London to pick up the reward was highly unlikely, and that this, together with the story that she thought she knew the killer, is hugely suspect. It seems to me that the whole thing was either a complete fiction or a misattribution, perpetrated by the Casual Ward superintendent, the Observer, or both.

Hello Sam

Apparently hospital wards were full of women who were convinced that they knew the killer and believed he was out to get them.

I believe Kate to have been an intelligent and resourceful woman, who was full of charm. In other words someone who would make an impression. I'm sure the Superintendent did remember her. It doesn't seem to have been the first time she had been there, she knew the routines. And it is a bit of a jump from the infirmary to the Casual ward. Story one could have been a garbled version of story two. And the reward version does give a reason for Kate leaving the warmth and security of the prison cell in the middle of the night. (Still waiting for your other logical reasons, by the way.)

I think you underestimate the power of the grapevine. Carters, farmers and so on would have been travelling up to London and back all the time, carrying the latest gossip with them as well as their wares.

Best wishes
C4

[DJA]

With all due respect, none of you would be up to a 30 mile trek with hard physical work at the end of it though.

I used to walk/hitch into Geelong fortnightly
Round trip of well over 100 Km.
Used to do the same for a counter lunch. 32Km.
Curtailed in the last decade.

Built railway lines through snake and mosquito infested swamps in NQ in my younger days. Break from the tedious business world.
Elite swimmer.

Might be worthwhile reading how many weeks it took John and Kate to reach their destination.
Demonstrates that neither of them were in good health.

London smog was due to coal burning.
Coal pollutes the planet with Mercury.
Mercury irritates Strep which gives out Hydrogen Sulphide,which is a urine test for many of these diseases these days.
H2S is very toxic.

Fresh air and a break in routine were their reasons for going hopping.
The work was not physically demanding or back breaking.
Would have been difficult for those two though.
Seems they did not get signed on that season.

[curious4]

I used to walk/hitch into Geelong fortnightly
Round trip of well over 100 Km.
Used to do the same for a counter lunch. 32Km.
Curtailed in the last decade.

Built railway lines through snake and mosquito infested swamps in NQ in my younger days. Break from the tedious business world.
Elite swimmer.

Might be worthwhile reading how many weeks it took John and Kate to reach their destination.
Demonstrates that neither of them were in good health.

London smog was due to coal burning.
Coal pollutes the planet with Mercury.
Mercury irritates Strep which gives out Hydrogen Sulphide,which is a urine test for many of these diseases these days.
H2S is very toxic.

Fresh air and a break in routine were their reasons for going hopping.
The work was not physically demanding or back breaking.
Would have been difficult for those two though.
Seems they did not get signed on that season.

Believe me, I've tried it, it's both backbreaking and tough. And to earn anything you have to be fast.

No picnic in the country, although sick relatives were often taken along as it was supposed to be curative. Could have been for some, hops being full of natural estrogen. (Cause of brewer's droop? Apologies for the indelicate remark, couldn't resist).

Best wishes
C4

[DJA]

Believe me, I've tried it, it's both backbreaking and tough. And to earn anything you have to be fast.

No picnic in the country, although sick relatives were often taken along as it was supposed to be curative. Could have been for some, hops being full of natural estrogen. (Cause of brewer's droop? Apologies for the indelicate remark, couldn't resist).

Best wishes
C4

Meh. You ain't tried cane cutting and stripping.

Have actually grown my own hops. Anti bacterial. Shh! Think it's illegal.

Tobacco picking is back breaking work.
Gotta scare the snakes away first!

[RockySullivan]

I don't think she was "wrong", because I don't believe that Eddowes really had a theory as to the killer's identity at all. I think it's a made-up story, or at best a mistake. Consider the following:

"Some extraordinary stories are being told by people who allege that they could easily identify the murderer. A reporter who visited St George's East infirmary interviewed, in the ward devoted to unfortunates, a woman named Jenny, who stated that she was absolutely sure of the identity of the murderer."

This story of "Infirmary Jenny" appeared in the East London Observer of 13th October 1888, but guess what story appears in the very next paragraph? None other than Eddowes' "I think I know him" story, for which this particular newspaper is the primary - only? - source.

"A reporter gleaned some curious information from the Casual Ward Superintendent of Mile End, regarding Kate Eddowes, the Mitre-square victim. She was formerly well-known in the casual wards there, but had disappeared for a considerable time until the Friday preceding her murder. Asking the woman where she had been in the interval, the superintendent was met with the reply, that she had been in the country "hopping". "But," added the woman, "I have come back to earn the reward offered for the apprehension of the Whitechapel murderer. I think I know him."

Things to note:

- Eddowes was not a permanent resident of the Casual Ward (by definition, few were), so why should this superintendent have noticed her absence?

- Details of the hopping expedition had been widely covered in the papers, so the superintendent's reference to it can't be taken to imply that he got this information from Eddowes.

- The issue of a reward was not discussed in the papers until mid/late September, when Eddowes was away in the fields of Kent. In contrast, "reward-talk" was widespread after Eddowes' death, and certainly was by the time the superintendent told his story to the East London Observer.

I conclude from all this that Eddowes' claiming to return to London to pick up the reward was highly unlikely, and that this, together with the story that she thought she knew the killer, is hugely suspect. It seems to me that the whole thing was either a complete fiction or a misattribution, perpetrated by the Casual Ward superintendent, the Observer, or both.

Hi Sam, when was this article published? Knowing that the killer read the paper probably read the newspaper (and the whitehall torso being found with two day's edition, with a long time between the two dates) could the killer have read this story and sought Eddowes as a challenge?

[Sam Flynn]

I think you underestimate the power of the grapevine. Carters, farmers and so on would have been travelling up to London and back all the time, carrying the latest gossip with them as well as their wares.

I think you're overestimating it, but even if not, the latest gossip would have been of two murders and NO reward. Even if carters were inclined to give news reports to (all?) hop-picking casuals, they only had incomplete information available to them at the relevant time; indeed, the Chapman inquest was to rumble on until 26th September.

Even assuming that one of these theoretical "carter-bulletins" actually reached Eddowes' ears, it beggars belief to see how she gained enough information to decide that she knew the killer, and compelled her to slog back to London to claim a non-existent reward.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Sam, when was this article published? Knowing that the killer read the paper probably read the newspaper (and the whitehall torso being found with two day's edition, with a long time between the two dates) could the killer have read this story and sought Eddowes as a challenge?

It was published 13 days after Eddowes' death, Rocky. Time-travel aside, I don't think her killer could have been inspired by the article, somehow

[DJA]

sick relatives were often taken along as it was supposed to be curative. Could have been for some, hops being full of natural estrogen. (Cause of brewer's droop? Apologies for the indelicate remark, couldn't resist).

Best wishes
C4

In Kate's case,her adrenal glands were probably in worse shape than her kidneys.
DHEA/DHEAS levels would have been very low and therefore her estrogen based steroids would follow suit.

Best Wishes Back at Ya!

[RockySullivan]

It was published 13 days after Eddowes' death, Rocky. Time-travel aside, I don't think her killer could have been inspired by the article, somehow

Sorry I'm an idiot, I missed the October 13 date in your post. So you think it's made up?