Did the Seaside Home ID happen?

[Chris]

Hi Paul,

When, by whom, and how?

Regards,

Simon

It's been discussed ad nauseam - for example, here:

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=7745&page=45

[Phil Carter]

Hello Chris,

Not to mention the old aunt that mentioned that the subject and name was discussed around the table in the 1930's.

Wild horses eh?


Phil

[Chris]

Not to mention the old aunt that mentioned that the subject and name was discussed around the table in the 1930's.

Wild horses eh?

I suggest that if people want to discuss lunatic theories about the marginalia having been faked, they take it to that thread in Pub Talk that I just linked to.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Chris,

Thank you.

I followed your link, only to remember that I had previously wandered into a shitstorm of denial.

Why do people want to believe this stuff on the basis of absolutely no evidence?

And whilst I'm here, what is so lunatic about doubting the authenticity of the marginalia?

Regards,

Simon

[Scott Nelson]

If he was always known as Cohen (say) in England, I'm not sure why the police would ever have heard his original surname. But if they had, I don't believe that Macnaghten, writing in an official memorandum, would have used that surname and omitted the one used in the official records. As the recipient of the memo, my question to him would have been, "This man is known as Cohen and appears as Cohen in all the records. Why on earth have you called him Kosminski (and not even Kosminski, alias Cohen) in your memorandum?"

As I suggested, Cohen may have immigrated to the UK as "Kosminski" and later anglicized his name to Cohen. Swanson and Macnaghten, emphasizing the fact that he was an Polish immigrant by referring to him by his uncommon last name, wouldn't have wanted to refer to him by a common name like "Cohen," if it might leak out and endanger the many familes surnamed "Cohen" in London. There were a dozen or so Kosminski families in London at the time, and thousands of families named "Cohen."

[Phil Carter]

Hello Chris,

I am just quoting family Swanson.
That has everything to do with the subject of whether the Seaside ID ever happened or not.

It doesn't always sit well being referred to though.


Phil

[Simon Wood]

Hi Paul,

What's up?

Cat got your tongue?

Regards,

Simon

[PaulB]

Hi Paul,

What's up?

Cat got your tongue?

Regards,

Simon

Nope. I don't spend my life on the message boards. What do you imagine the cat would have my tongue over?

[Phil Carter]

Quote from Jim Swansons son to The Telegraph newspaper in 2008.

"His(Donald Sutherland Swanson- DSS) private papers contain ...hand written identification of Aaron Kosminski as the Ripper".

Now. Did the Seaside Home ID happen is the initial question on this thread. It is reasonable and within the bounds of scrutinising ALL the material connected to that subject in order to draw upon a conclusion. That means all matters related to the discovery, release of, family history attached to and pertaining to the Swanson Marginalia. Therefore. The quote above.

Two things to note. "Hand written papers"...not how one can reasonably describe marginal pencilled entries in a book..but that besides..."written identification of Aaron Kosminski as the Ripper".

Any forthcoming attempt therefore..to explain away the written Kosminski as NOT being the CORRECT Kosminski. .or even another named Polish Jew ( re Cohen, Levy) has a problem.

Mr. N. Swanson esq has already confirmed that it was AARON.
Though quite how he did this from the marginalia notes is beyond me.

All that is on top of the holes within the written text of the marginalia itself. And much more besides.


Phil

[Simon Wood]

Hi Paul,

It's fascinating how you retreat into your shell whenever an inconvenient question presents itself.

Regards,

Simon

[Chris]

Any forthcoming attempt therefore..to explain away the written Kosminski as NOT being the CORRECT Kosminski. .or even another named Polish Jew ( re Cohen, Levy) has a problem.

Mr. N. Swanson esq has already confirmed that it was AARON.
Though quite how he did this from the marginalia notes is beyond me.

How anyone can be so outstandingly silly is quite beyond me.

[PaulB]

Hi Paul,

It's fascinating how you retreat into your shell whenever an inconvenient question presents itself.

Regards,

Simon

That's not true. You know it. I know it. Now, stop being daft and if you think I am dodging an inconvenient question, ask me it again. If, however, you mean your little bit of taradiddle about whether or not 'Kosminski' was named in the marginalia prior to 1987, that's been dealt with, Chris has given you the page reference and you and anyone interested can wade through it again if they want to, but life is short and I don't intend to repeat what was said back in 2013. The evidence that Kosminski was named in the marginalia is overwhelming and as harsh as it may seem I can't be bothered to go over the same tedious ground again. It's all where Chris indicated. But if that's not what you meant, please, fire away with your question.

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Abby

Trevor
Those are not ridiculous scenarios-theyre actually good questions.

How the heck do we know what the family thought at the time?

We dont but to suggest they were helping the police in trying to find and apprehend the killer and bring him to justice is way off !

Maybe they felt they had a moral obligation to work with the police, if they though he was the ripper?

Come off it moral obligation this is cloud cuckoo land suggestions

Maybe they were the ones who originally brought him to the polices attention when he threatened his sister with a knife?

Another cloud cuckoo land suggestion

Maybe he scared the **** out of them and they wanted him gone?

They could have done what they did before take him themsleves to an asylum

Maybe the police were pressuring them to assist in the ID?

Then if he wasn't arrested why would they have assisted he is a family member

Maybe they did not know that an ID was going to take place?

So what do you think he or they was told when the police said they were taking him to Brighton for or wherever- a day out at the seaside?

There is any number of reasons the family could have worked with the police.

And so many more why they wouldn't

There is nothing about this alleged ID incident that makes any sense at all
You and others have to realize that the police to a certain degree had to work within the parameters of the law and you have to also realize that many of the scenarios put forward would have as likely as not had they have happened ruined any chance of a prosecution. So I would suggest that if the police had any inclination about the viability of Kosminski as a suspect they would have not jeopardised their case by going off track.

[Monty]

Medical and police experts for a start !

Modern day police experts are not experts when dealing with Victorian police procedure.

Monty

[pinkmoon]

The first thing the police would have done when Kosminski came to their attention would be to see if he had an alibi on the nights of the murders as he obviously didn't and the fact he had picked up a knife and threatened a women they might well have thought he might have been the ripper only one thing lacking though any real evidence.