Was JTR a local?

[Cogidubnus]

Can I throw something wild in as a suggestion?

Transport staff in the UK tend to be rostered...ie they generally don't have a fixed "pick" as US workers do. This often holds true in historical situations as well as current practice.

What this means is that "rest days" (or in a historic context, the rest day, because a 6 day week is likely) are not regular but rotate....as do the duties covered on working days...everyone takes their turn to work all the "duties".

For example in week 1 the rest day might be Sunday, in week 2 it might be Sunday; in Week 3 it might be Monday, in Week 4 Tuesday etc...every so often a week with a Saturday rest day might be followed by a week with a Sunday rest day, guaranteeing what is known as a "long weekend"...

This is because on Sundays there are the fewest "duties" to cover, and therefore the most "rest days"...on Saturdays there are more "duties" and therefore fewer rest days...and during the week there the maximum number of "duties" and the fewest "rest days"

Could "Jack" have been a public transport worker either in horse buses or railways? Or in an inherently similar industry with rostered rest days?

All the best

Dave

[Rosella]

These murders didn't happen during the daytime in a working week. With the exception of Chapman, most occurred in the very early hours of the morning (and Kelly's took place on a public holiday.)

Most of us have had heavy nights on occasion during the week and turned up for work the next day. Perhaps not performing at full capacity, but still there! Why not the Ripper? After the murders all he would need to do would get back to his nearby bolt hole, pop his souveniers somewhere safe, clean himself up a bit and he might even have been able to get an hour of so of sleep.

If he was a butcher/horse slaughterer Jack needn't even have worried about a few splashes of blood on his clothing. Did horse slaughterers work consistent six day weeks or did they have odd hours, depending on when/whether a large batch of horses were brought in?

[Ben]

Hi GUT,

Shall I go on with possible reasons.

You could do I suppose, but why? Surely that would only be necessary if someone declared it "impossible" that the ripper could have been a "commuter" type of offender? But that's not what I've seen here.

If we're in the business of listing "possible" scenarios involving Jack as an outsider, these would include the palpably ridiculous, such as: James Maybrick wanted to get back at his wife by killing prostitutes in Whitechapel, as set down in his diary, or William Gull knew that his targets lived and worked in that district, and that they needed to be eliminated in order to protect the monarchy.

Yes, these belong in the realms of the physically "possible" (and thus on your list) as far as anyone is aware, but aren't we slightly more interested in the probable? And if overwhelming statistics, criminological expertise, and - frankly - common sense point towards a locally-based offender, oughtn't we to be slightly swayed by that, however unexotic a solution to the JTR mystery it might indicate?

Regards,
Ben

[Ben]

Hi Gnote,

Exactly. Look at The Green River Killer. If it weren't for DNA he'd probably still be free and he killed about 50 more people than the Ripper. (yes i'm aware these numbers are not concrete) Gary Ridgway in fact had a below average IQ but was simply good at what he did. Maybe the Ripper did have some special qualities that set him apart from other serial killers. Nothing wrong with speculating about it, but i see no reason to think it's more likely than not.

Agreed entirely.

Ridgway was caught as a result of DNA, not because he corresponded to the working class "local" marauder model.

[Damaso Marte]

As with most things Ripper-related, the answer is "we don't know, and we are unlikely to ever know for sure." That said, I think the circumstantial evidence points to a local.

[jason_c]

Or possibly the best place to find a women who would willingly go of with you to some dark corner without making any fuss.

Im quite certain he could have found easier places to murder as the police presence intensified. It's not as if Whitechapel was the only area of London with these types of women who he could easily murder. Either he lived locally or he had to visit the area often. I suspect it more likely he lived locally.

[martin wilson]

Hi all

If we go on dates, rather than days and include Martha Tabram, a sort of pattern emerges.

7th August. 31st August. 8th September. 30th September. 9th November.

It's a pattern familiar to anyone who has worked in trade accounts, where payment is due on the last day of the following month, the firm I worked for offered 2% discount on prompt payment.

Early settlement was 3.75%, or they could be late payments.

Just a thought.
All the best.

[pinkmoon]

Im quite certain he could have found easier places to murder as the police presence intensified. It's not as if Whitechapel was the only area of London with these types of women who he could easily murder. Either he lived locally or he had to visit the area often. I suspect it more likely he lived locally.

He might have frequented the area for years maybe he travelled through on his way to work maybe maybe maybe we just don't know. The police presence and the risk of been caught might have excited him who knows .Could he have read about the depravity in Whitechapel in the newspaper and decided to go and do something about it?Could he have had a bad encounter with a prostitute could he have caught the dreaded syphilis ?.

[jason_c]

He might have frequented the area for years maybe he travelled through on his way to work maybe maybe maybe we just don't know. The police presence and the risk of been caught might have excited him who knows .Could he have read about the depravity in Whitechapel in the newspaper and decided to go and do something about it?Could he have had a bad encounter with a prostitute could he have caught the dreaded syphilis ?.

Assuming he wasn't an imbecile he likely knew the places to find fallen women. These places were not difficult to locate, and these women could be found in various locations throughout the capital. Yet it's always Whitechapel he returns to. He may have enjoyed the thrill, but what's certain is that he enjoyed murder, inflicting post mortem mutilations and the getting away with it. These are not "could haves" these are known known's. I really find it difficult to imagine him returning to Whitechapel time and again if not for him having very strong links to the area. The most likely link is that he lived/worked there.

[Batman]

JtR and the Whitechapel murders can be understood 100% with respect to geoprofiling as criminals of this type are completely unaware of their subconscious actions to select comfort zones within their domicile radius.

In fact JtR should be THE textbook example.

[Abby Normal]

Maybe he enjoyed the challenge of it being "hot".

Maybe he had a compulsion to kill in that area, mental health can give some rather strange compulsions.

Maybe his target was in that area.

Maybe that's where he saw his ex having it off with some bloke.

Shall I go on with possible reasons.

Thanks Gut
All possible reasons for sure. But logistically how would it work? Does he walk there from a different part of the city? take a hansom, ride a horse, take the train?

Hows he get back to his bolt hole?

[Abby Normal]

Well, if the Ripper was Bury or Druitt, he in fact came from some distance off..

We’ve discussed in the past whether it likely a West End Tosh came slumming into the East End…

The general consensus was in the negative..

After a few murders, the street walkers were looking for a bogeyman so anyone out of place would seemingly get the blow-off…

As Abby indicated, the apron doesn’t promote the idea of an absconding ripper…

Predators generally work best in familiar territory, this guy was a non-descript in East London just as Bundy was a typical coed on college campuses…


Greg

Bingo Greg
And if it is someone who "commutes" into the area it would be someone like Bury. Avg Joe pub going bloke without regular work who doesn't have to answer to family (ie his wife-who he dominated and didn't have to explain his whereabouts). Someone who had a reason to be out on the streets late at night-his sawdust business, and the means to get back and forth to his residence easily with his cart. Plus he didn't live that far away.

And like you said, would blend in without raising suspicion.

I deny the probability of some sort of Toff (Druitt etc) who comes in from far distance, let alone in some sort of conspicuous dress/transportation.

And to your point about Bundy-Serial killers tend to target their class/type(for lack of a better word). I doubt someone well off would be targeting low end whitechapel prostitutes.

[Abby Normal]

Hi all

If we go on dates, rather than days and include Martha Tabram, a sort of pattern emerges.

7th August. 31st August. 8th September. 30th September. 9th November.

It's a pattern familiar to anyone who has worked in trade accounts, where payment is due on the last day of the following month, the firm I worked for offered 2% discount on prompt payment.

Early settlement was 3.75%, or they could be late payments.

Just a thought.
All the best.

Hi Martin
Exactly-Ive also made the same point-the ripper killed in the beginning of the month and then the end of the month and so on. Ive often said we should look at occupations that wouldn't be condusive to killing during the middle of the week or middle of the month.

[pinkmoon]

Assuming he wasn't an imbecile he likely knew the places to find fallen women. These places were not difficult to locate, and these women could be found in various locations throughout the capital. Yet it's always Whitechapel he returns to. He may have enjoyed the thrill, but what's certain is that he enjoyed murder, inflicting post mortem mutilations and the getting away with it. These are not "could haves" these are known known's. I really find it difficult to imagine him returning to Whitechapel time and again if not for him having very strong links to the area. The most likely link is that he lived/worked there.

People tend to forget that the women not necessarily our killer would know some place to go so they wouldn't be disturbed for a few minutes.

[Spider]

Hi all

If we go on dates, rather than days and include Martha Tabram, a sort of pattern emerges.

7th August. 31st August. 8th September. 30th September. 9th November.

It's a pattern familiar to anyone who has worked in trade accounts, where payment is due on the last day of the following month, the firm I worked for offered 2% discount on prompt payment.

Early settlement was 3.75%, or they could be late payments.

Just a thought.
All the best.

It's an interesting pattern when you look at the dates. It stinks of someone on regular business trips to me.