William Grant Grainger and censorship

[Tom_Wescott]

Good stuff, Chris. Where's the entries for Le Grand from these registers?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Chris]

Good stuff, Chris. Where's the entries for Le Grand from these registers?

These are annual registers, so one needs to know the year of release (which I didn't know for Le Grand). However, by chance I did see an entry for him in one of the above registers. I hope I'll have a chance to post it later today.

[Chris]

Incidentally, a lot more pertinent information has been posted by Debs and Rob C over on the jtrforums threads on Grant/Grainger:

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=12188

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=12794

[GregBaron]

Shadowy Whitechapel complexion...

Hey everybody,

Great thread. Do we know that Lawende identified Grant or is this also speculative? Now for a technical question, I notice it lists his complexion as "sw". What does this mean? My guess is either "swarthy", "sallow" or "sorta-white" ha.......... just kidding there.......but if the guy was blue eyed I imagine his skin would be fair yet sallow is a rather precise term. I notice the guy above has a complexion of "fr" which I assume means fair. I'm comparing him in my head to Lawende's description.....he appears a bit tall and perhaps a bit thin...........?

Greg

[Chris]

Do we know that Lawende identified Grant or is this also speculative?

We know the Pall Mall Gazette reported that a witness from 1888 had identified him, and it's been argued that Lawende fits the bill best (which is also my feeling). There's no official record of it, though. On the other hand, the reporter had been given very full information about Grant's previous movements, so he certainly had a good informant.

Now for a technical question, I notice it lists his complexion as "sw". What does this mean? My guess is either "swarthy", "sallow" or "sorta-white" ha.......... just kidding there.......but if the guy was blue eyed I imagine his skin would be fair yet sallow is a rather precise term. I notice the guy above has a complexion of "fr" which I assume means fair. I'm comparing him in my head to Lawende's description.....he appears a bit tall and perhaps a bit thin...........?

Sorry - I should have posted a copy of the list of abbreviations. Here it is (I hope it's not too small to read). "sw" stands for sallow.

[Chris]

Here are the details of Grant's/Grainger's second release on licence, from PCOM 6/21. Apparently (despite what I had assumed) it didn't go any better than the first. Within two months the licence had been revoked, and he was sent to Pentonville.



The column headings for the second image are:
Date of Licence. [21 November 05] / Amount of Remanet. / [1] Years. / [143] Days. / Date Remanet will expire. [26 April 07] / Remarks.



It seems that the conviction in 1904 that led to his first licence being revoked (for drunkenness according to a newspaper report) was at Thames Police Court, and that the sentence was 5 days.

[Chris]

William Grainger's baptism

Thanks to the excellent resources and very helpful volunteers of the Irish Genealogical Research Society in London, today I was able to check a transcript of the Church of Ireland register of St Luke's parish, Cork. As hoped, it did turn out to include a record of what I am sure is Grant/Grainger's baptism.

The vital clue came from a settlement document discovered recently by Debra Arif. When Forbes Winslow publicised the case of William Grant in 1910, according to newspaper reports he was an inmate of Marylebone Workhouse. Debs checked the workhouse records and found only one William Grant was an inmate at this time. Like the suspect, he was a native of Cork, but he was stated to be about 12 years older than earlier statements about the suspect's age had indicated. According to the settlement document, he had been born on 3 June 1848 in St Luke's parish, Cork, whereas it had previously been stated that the suspect was born around 1860.

Before the offence in 1895, the suspect seems always to have been named in records as William Grainger, not William Grant. If the man in the workhouse records was indeed the suspect, it appeared he had exaggerated his age by about 12 years. If so, it seemed there should be no record of the baptism of a William Grant in 1848 at St Luke's, but instead a record of the baptism of a William Grainger around 1860.

That is exactly what I found. I checked the baptisms between September 1843 and February 1875, and found no Grants at all. There was a single family of Graingers, and on 24 June 1860 a William Grainger, who had been born on 3 June, was baptised. As this is the same birthday given by the man in the workhouse, I don't think there can be any doubt that this is the right man.

Here are all the records I found relating to the family.

Marriage:

1849 Nov 6
GRAINGER William, full age, bachelor, labourer, of Rathmore Cross, son of Richard, hatter
& BUSTEED X Mary, full age, spinster, of Cahirgal, dau of William, farmer
By banns
Wits: James Jennings, John Bowen

Baptisms:

1850 Spt 11 GRAINGER Richard Henry, of William & Mary, Rathmore, [occupation blank], born Aug 25

1854 Nov 16 GRAINGER Catherine, of William & Mary, Barrack Cross, Bellringer at St Lukes Church, born Nov 8

1857 Nov 19 GRANGER George, of William & Mary, 39 Ballyhooly road, [occupation blank], born Nov 6

1860 Jne 24 GRAINGER William, of William & Mary, 39 Ballyhooly Road, [occupation blank], born Jne 3

1864 Jan 14 GRAINGER Hester, of William & Mary, 39 Ballyhooly Road, [occupation blank], born 1863 Dec 25

1867 Mch 31 GRAINGER Benjamin, of William & Mary, Ballyhooly Road, [occupation blank], born 1867 Mch 5

[lynn cates]

nice

Hello Chris. Nice work, as always.

Cheers.
LC

[Chris]

Regarding Howard Brown's question on jtrforums.com about where this puts the newspaper claims about Grainger's family having a "prominent male member" (specifically, "an uncle in an official position in Cork"), I think it must make them less credible.

However, his maternal grandfather William Busteed was described as a farmer, and some branches of the Busteed family were evidently quite substantial landholders, so it may be that this was a reference to the family of Grainger's mother (though she herself was unable to sign her name when she married).

[Chris]

And just to confirm, these records are from a Church of Ireland (i.e. Protestant) parish register.

[Nemo]

Nice finds Chris

That looks like our man

That must be Cahergal, Co. Cork where his mother came from

It's a bit windswept that place, not many inhabitants at all

I checked on todays statistics and it says there are only 13 people per square mile and 75% of the land is agricultural

I had my suspicions the family was protestant due to the choice of William as a name for the child

I put forward the suggestion that a member of the Cork Militia would not be welcome in Irish Catholic circles (though many of the militia were Catholic) and that his unsubstantiated claim to be a ship's stoker may have been a story for the locals

If you've got access to a genealogical site with death certificates, there are a number of female Grainger's who died in London in 1889 who might be worth a look

That's if Kebble's information is correct that Grainger studied for a few years at St Bartholomew's Hospital, leaving in 1889, and that he had previously admitted to his wife he was the Ripper, and who subsequently died of the shock/shame in the same year

Also, St Bart's has an extensive archive in which Grainger as a medical student may be found - there's a hint that he had been there for three years

I suspect it was in 1889 that his family disowned him, probably based around the circumstances of his wife's death, and he subsequently went under the name Grant

[Nemo]

PS The Busteeds are landed gentry - The Earl of Carrick was a Busteed

http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie:8080/LandedEstates/jsp/estate-show.jsp?id=2903

There are many Busteeds in the militia, late 1700's...

http://www.corkarchives.ie/media/freemen1710-1841.pdf

[Nemo]

There's a John Busteed listed in this document, noted as a "process server" in Innishannon in the late 1870's

http://www.archive.org/stream/francisguyscount00guycuoft/francisguyscount00guycuoft_djvu.txt

I think that means a person who enforces court orders, possibly evictions

Innishannon is a town in Cork

There is also a Busteed who joined the Irish Volunteers in later years whose father was a staunch Unionist and member of the Church of Ireland, though his mother was Catholic and a strong Nationalist

[Chris]

Nemo

Thanks for your comments.

I think there's a good chance the reports were referring to a relation on his mother's side. Of course, it may have been a more distant relation rather than an uncle. I can imagine him saying "My mother was a Busteed, and Mr Busteed is such-and-such in Cork."

It seems that Cahergal may have been an area in the City of Cork itself. Just off Ballyhooly Road there are now Cahergal Lawn and several other little roads with similar names. The housing is modern, and the area would presumably have been open fields in the early 19th century.

The Busteeds were certainly significant landowners, but I don't think they were earls. I can see some references online to an earl of Carrick named Busteed in the 18th century, but I think that must be an error, as the earls of Carrick were surnamed Butler at that time.

I am still sceptical as to whether Grainger was ever a medical student, and about the St Bartholomew's Hospital story, but I hope this may become a bit clearer if we can uncover some more details of Grainger's family background.

[Nemo]

That's interesting about the area of Cork City called Cahergil Chris

I agree the Earl bit is probably in error

Grant/Grainger himself stated to Winslow that he was "lately a medical student" and seeing as he is described as being a student before becoming a fireman, and also "in his youth", I tend to think he was a medical student prior to 1889

The female relative was a "babe-in-arms" in 1889 so it might be possible to trace her as a newborn 1888/1889

Very interesting stuff Chris

I wish you every success with your further endeavours