So what if the Ripper was Jewish?

[Colin Roberts]

Keep up the good work ...

Thanks, Observer.

[GUT]

"Why did you come here?"
"My family was murdered and my village burned by local bureaucrats. You?
"... my wife is allergic to tulips."

I needed that

[Errata]

Hi Colin Roberts. I am in the process of replying to said Mr D's post in which I have made favourable comments regarding your excellent work involving the Jewish inhabitants residing in the "killing zone" of the Whitechapel Murderer. I also observe that Mr D has conveniently not commented on your findings.

Keep up the good work Colin Roberts

Regards

Observer

I'm still stuck on how many Dutch Jews there were. I mean, Poland and Russia are obvious because of the Pale and because of exceptionally brutal conditions. Holland was traditionally a place Jew fled TO. Not from. I feel like the Jews from Holland must have developed a real inferiority complex when hanging around outside shul and comparing immigration stories.

"Why did you come here?"
"My family was murdered and my village burned by local bureaucrats. You?
"... my wife is allergic to tulips."

We're a people who thrive on comparing suffering. The poor Dutch Jews probably gave up and became C of E within a year.

[Observer]

Well, by you anyway, Scott.

No one else seems to have noticed; especially Mr. D.

I've got similar statistics and estimates of Jewish populations for the Hamlet of Mile End Old Town and the Parish of St. George in the East, and I could compile them for the City Of London and the Parish of St. Matthew Bethnal Green; but I don't think that very many posters would care.

Casebook used to be a repository for meaningful research. Now it's just a cheap chat room.

Hi Colin Roberts. I am in the process of replying to said Mr D's post in which I have made favourable comments regarding your excellent work involving the Jewish inhabitants residing in the "killing zone" of the Whitechapel Murderer. I also observe that Mr D has conveniently not commented on your findings.

Keep up the good work Colin Roberts

Regards

Observer

[Colin Roberts]

Please stick around.

I shouldn't complain if I am not contributing myself, but I am afraid that I don't have the necessary amount of time at my disposal.

[MrBarnett]

Well, by you anyway, Scott.

No one else seems to have noticed; especially Mr. D.

I've got similar statistics and estimates of Jewish populations for the Hamlet of Mile End Old Town and the Parish of St. George in the East, and I could compile them for the City Of London and the Parish of St. Matthew Bethnal Green; but I don't think that very many posters would care.

Casebook used to be a repository for meaningful research. Now it's just a cheap chat room.

Colin,

Your return to the boards is a welcome relief from the endless suspectological tit for tat. Please stick around. And perhaps we can get people posting on the East End photos thread again. Aahh, that would be good!

MrB

[Colin Roberts]

Very much appreciated.

Well, by you anyway, Scott.

No one else seems to have noticed; especially Mr. D.

I've got similar statistics and estimates of Jewish populations for the Hamlet of Mile End Old Town and the Parish of St. George in the East, and I could compile them for the City Of London and the Parish of St. Matthew Bethnal Green; but I don't think that very many posters would care.

Casebook used to be a repository for meaningful research. Now it's just a cheap chat room.

[Harry D]

It doesn't work like that Harry.

Okay, let's say we had a Ripper-esque murderer in the heart of Harlem, or any particular suburb with a large demographic of people from one ethnic group. We'd be looking for someone with a good knowledge of the area and someone who'd be able to blend in without attracting too much unnecessary attention. It doesn't necessarily follow that the murderer would be black/Asian/Jewish etc. but the probability is that they would be.

Come on Harry, you are convinced Levy was the Ripper.

Ad homimem. What I personally believe doesn't matter. The salient fact is that there IS a Jewish connection to the Ripper case, whether people like it or not.

If the Swanson marginalia is genuine then Kosminski seems to be Anderson's Jewish suspect. Someone informed Macnaghten Kosminski was a suspect, so yes, we have a Jewish suspect. Any evidence suggesting Kosminski was the Ripper? In my opinion no.

And if the Swanson marginalia is to be believed, then it couldn't have been Kosminski, because the guy didn't die until 1919. Whatever way you slice it, we have a Jewish suspect who certain police officials at the time believed to be the Ripper. Whether he WAS the Ripper is indeed debatable, but that wasn't the original point, was it?

Really? So how would one describe a swarthy foreigner who was not a Jew?

Good point. Political correctness certainly complicates matter.

There aren't any decent suspects Harry. I'll come off the fence when one is presented. How about that?

What is it about Jacob Levy that doesn't impress you as a suspect?

[Errata]

My apologies, Erratta, I did misread your post. Thanks for the clarification.

Automobiles have made it easier for serial killers to put more distance between themselves and the body. And so I'm not quite sure how to judge distance in 1888. Was a few blocks away far enough for a body abandoner?

Sure. Dumpers are the ones who are concerned with the location of the corpse if they aren't going to keep it (words you never think you will type). On their front lawn is technically far enough away, because they have no connection to the corpse whatsoever. They just walk away. They have no connection to it, don't think anyone else will think they have a connection to it, don't care what happens to it, don't care when it is discovered, or if it is discovered. It's like dropping an empty soda bottle when there is no soda left. It's not the abandonment part that's geographically sensitive. Because these killers have no connection to the corpse, they tend to be less emotionally involved.

Dahmer was a collector, and he was very emotionally needy with his victims. He was attached. He kept them close. Same with Gein. Gacy was also, but in a very different way. He kept the bodies to continue to exert power over them. Also he killed them in his home, and he wasn't going to risk throwing a corpse in his truck to get rid of it. Dumpers are motivated by fear, shock, or privacy. Nobody wants to get caught with a corpse, so dumping them in the woods seems to be the method of choice. Bundy technically dumped his victims before he killed them. He took them to a place where he knew he could visit the remains undisturbed. He wanted privacy, he wanted access, and might have ended up a collector if he was less of a misogynist and didn't live in apartments with girlfriends. But collectors and dumpers both tend to have had some contact with their victims while they were still alive. Most had been seen with the victim, though nobody registered it as a threat at the time. Typically there was a relationship.

Abandoners tend to be pure psychopaths. They tend to be the ones who you can't find a mental illness or personality disorder other than being a psychopath. Everything they want from killing someone they get in a single session. They have no interest in going back, they don't need the body to relive it, it's not personal. They tend to choose victims the way people buy a used car. The victim rates as "good enough" in the important areas, and nothing else matters. There is always some emotion attached to any serial killer murder, or they wouldn't do it. But with abandoners it tends to be a bit more clinical. Take Berkowitz for example. His victims were total strangers whose location and general appearance made them targets. He had no interest in them, and in truth very little interest in whether or not they even died. He wanted power, he wanted to generate fear, and he wanted fame. Done. Abandoners are hard to catch. They can afford to be careful. And their motives are not always plain. But very rarely are they dumb enough to call attention to themselves. Truth be told, this level of psychopath has a tough time concealing what they are. A cop shows up on their door asking if they know anything about the murder next door, it will be very hard for them to hide their psychopathy. Dennis Rader was just a little cold to his wife and kids. But he had a long time with them to have some successes that offset his basic malfunction. He could not hide it from the cops. Also we tend to think that the victim selection has to do with the victim. It doesn't always, and certainly not for abandoners.

Jack wanted prostitutes, he wanted secure locations to kill in, and whatever else he got out of it was about him, not the victim. He wasn't punishing these women. That's personal. That's a relationship even if they had never met. Maybe he may have been taking out his anger or frustration on these women as surrogates for someone else, but that has nothing to do with the women he killed. That's him. It's not them. He didn't need these five women. Any woman who fit his needs would have worked. I think he likely went trolling for victims every week. He didn't kill every week because he didn't always find the conditions he needed. But because there was no relationship, he was not pushed into less than ideal circumstances. He didn't fixate enough on any one woman that he was forced to kill someone on his doorstep. He had options. He could wait. He could pick another victim.

[Barnaby]

My apologies, Erratta, I did misread your post. Thanks for the clarification.

Automobiles have made it easier for serial killers to put more distance between themselves and the body. And so I'm not quite sure how to judge distance in 1888. Was a few blocks away far enough for a body abandoner?

[Mayerling]

Hello Observer,

4. Not one of the victims was Jewish, despite the murders taking place in a Jewish neighborhood.

In 1887 Israel Lipski, a Jewish man from Poland, was tried and convicted for the murder of Miriam Angel, a Jewish woman. Despite having a Jewish female victim of a Jewish suspect, there was an upsurge in local anti-Semitism. It does not take too much to make bigots come out and show their colors, least of all consistancy and common sense.

Jeff

[Abby Normal]

If you read what I wrote again, you will notice that I acknowledge that killers bring victims home. Serial killers are often defined by what they do with the body. Some collect the bodies, some dump the bodies, some abandon the bodies. Jack the Ripper abandoned the bodies. Gein, Gacy, Dahmer, Kemper, Christie, Nilsen, the Wests, etc., etc. are all body collectors. Some out of necessity, some out of preference. But their behavior is dictated not only by their own peculiar pathology but by their circumstance. Body abandoners, like Jack, have a different pathology. Different needs, different motives, different circumstances. There is little to no point in comparing the behavior of body collectors and body abandoners. And those who abandon bodies generally don't hunt close to where they are associated. Their home, their work, their club. They don't want to be questioned. Often they are free to abandon the corpse because they know they won't be associated with it. And generally they are correct.

Great point errata
I would also point out that the torso killer was also a body dumper, as well as an abdomen mutilator.

[Errata]

But you know that this isn't true, right? There are many cases showing the opposite, Gein, Gacy, Dahmer just off the top of my head.

One might argue that these are exceptions. And I'd agree that most "with it" killers would want to put some distance between themselves and their crimes, but how far? They didn't have cars in those days. A few blocks away might suffice. And killing outside the club you (and many others) hang out at isn't exactly your house.

If you read what I wrote again, you will notice that I acknowledge that killers bring victims home. Serial killers are often defined by what they do with the body. Some collect the bodies, some dump the bodies, some abandon the bodies. Jack the Ripper abandoned the bodies. Gein, Gacy, Dahmer, Kemper, Christie, Nilsen, the Wests, etc., etc. are all body collectors. Some out of necessity, some out of preference. But their behavior is dictated not only by their own peculiar pathology but by their circumstance. Body abandoners, like Jack, have a different pathology. Different needs, different motives, different circumstances. There is little to no point in comparing the behavior of body collectors and body abandoners. And those who abandon bodies generally don't hunt close to where they are associated. Their home, their work, their club. They don't want to be questioned. Often they are free to abandon the corpse because they know they won't be associated with it. And generally they are correct.

[John Wheat]

Considering Serial Killers tend to murder from within there own social class we might expect a Jewish Ripper to murder Jewish women.

[Vincenzo]

We know from the GSG incident that the police were trying to keep a lid on the antisemitism that was brewing within Whitechapel. A piece of evidence that might not necessarily have been linked to the murders was destroyed to prevent a riot. This begs the question.... What if the Ripper had been proven to be a Jew? Wouldn't they have wanted to cover this up? Therefore, the Ripper gets carted off to the madhouse, and the case is closed (unofficially), since they never "caught" the man responsible.

Possibly, but that is a hell of a conspiracy to pull off. And after so many years, I feel that SOMEONE would have let the cat out of the bag. Imagine the scoop that would have been for someone close to the case writing their memoirs.