So what if the Ripper was Jewish?

[Observer]

If we're looking for a local with an intimate knowledge of the neighbourhood, then the chances of it being a Jew are higher than not.

It doesn't work like that Harry.

I never said the Ripper MUST be a Jew. I said there's more evidence in favour of a Jew than not. I wish you'd get this right.

Come on Harry, you are convinced Levy was the Ripper.

Unfortunately, Anderson & co. took that little secret to their graves. Doesn't change the fact that they had good reason for believing the Ripper was a Jew. Unless you think Anderson was lying about the identification?

If the Swanson marginalia is genuine then Kosminski seems to be Anderson's Jewish suspect. Someone informed Macnaghten Kosminski was a suspect, so yes, we have a Jewish suspect. Any evidence suggesting Kosminski was the Ripper? In my opinion no.

"Foreign" and "dark complexion", these were just euphemisms for Jewish ethnicity.

Really? So how would one describe a swarthy foreigner who was not a Jew?

Provide me with a better suspect than Levy, then we'll talk. Can't sit on the fence all day, Observer.

There aren't any decent suspects Harry. I'll come off the fence when one is presented. How about that?

Unfortunately, Anderson & co. took that little secret to their graves. Doesn't change the fact that they had good reason for believing the Ripper was a Jew. Unless you think Anderson was lying about the identification?

If the Swanson marginalia is genuine then Kosminski seems to be Anderson's Jewish suspect. Someone informed Macnaghten Kosminski was a suspect, so yes, we have a Jewish suspect. Any evidence suggesting Kosminski was the Ripper? In my opinion no.

Provide me with a better suspect than Levy, then we'll talk. Can't sit on the fence all day, Observer.

There aren't any decent suspects Harry. I'll come off the fence when one is presented. How about that?

This was not intended to be a Jacob Levy thread. Patrick S asked for my opinion on the Ripper, and I gave it to him. My original intent was to explore the possibility of the police covering up for a Jewish suspect, based on their handling of the GSG and 'antisemitism' in general. If you wish to continue the debate in the proper place, then feel free.

Anderson was top of the tree, if his witness had been willing to testify against Kosminski would they have tried him and hung him? No, I don't think the police would have covered up a Jewish suspect. If they had enough evidence against any single person they would have tried, and hung him.

[Colin Roberts]

This map is from 1890, so we can assume a similar (if slightly less) proportion at the time of the murders.

The map's 1899 vintage has been discussed numerous times on both Casebook and JTR Forums. While it would appear to be dated 1890, this characterization was surely corrupted during pdf conversion.

The 'Moving Here' website on which the map has been archived confirms as much:

"Map showing by colour the proportion of the Jewish population of East London, street by street, in 1899 - Map showing by colour the proportion of the Jewish population to other residents of East London, street by street, in 1899. The streets with the highest Jewish population are coloured dark blue and those with the lowest are coloured dark red, and it illustrates clearly the predominantly Jewish population at the time of the areas of Whitechapel, Spitalfields and Mile End in particular. It was reproduced in 'The Jew in London' by C Russell and H S Lewis, published in 1901. The maker, George Arkell, compiled the map from information gathered by the London School Board through its various visitors."

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.movinghere.org.uk/search/catalogue.asp?sequence=5&resourcetypeID=2&recordID=56004

Numerous topographical features that are depicted by the map, such as the Boundary Estate in the westernmost reaches of Bethnal Green and the Brady Street Dwellings immediately north of Buck's Row, didn't actually come into existence until the late 1890's. And we should all be acutely aware of the fact that the Rothschild Buildings notwithstanding, the Flower & Dean Street, George Street and Thrawl Street area of 1888 would surely have been colored a stunning shade of fire engine red, as opposed to the dark shade of navy blue that is seen in the map.

---

I posted the following some three or four years ago, on both Casebook and JTR Forums:



Whitechapel Registration District / Poor Law Union - 1888 (Click Image, to Enlarge in flickr)
Underlying Aerial Imagery: Copyright Google Earth, 2007
Overlying Plots, Labels and Color-Shadings: Copyright Colin C. Roberts, 2010

In accordance with the Census of England & Wales, 1891 ...

Whitechapel Registration District / Poor Law Union:
- The Liberty of Norton Folgate (Green): 1,449
- The Old Artillery Ground (Aqua): 2,138
- The Parish of Christ Church Spitalfields (Blue): 22,859
- The Hamlet of Mile End New Town (Orange): 11,303
- The Parish of Holy Trinity ('Minories') (Yellow): 301
- The Parish of St. Mary Whitechapel (Red): 32,326
----- {Portion within the County of Middlesex, -1889; the County of London, 1889-1965: 32,284}
----- {Portion within the City of London, -1900: 42}
- The Liberty of Her Majesty's Tower of London (Orange): 933
----- {The Liberty of the Tower: n/a}
----- {The Precinct of Old Tower Without: 65}
----- {The Tower: 868}
- The Precinct of St. Katharine (Blue): 182
- The Parish of St. Botolph without Aldgate (Green): 2,971
----- {Portion within the County of Middlesex, -1889; the County of London, 1889-1965: 2,971}

The portion of the Parish of St. Mary Whitechapel that was situated within the City of London (becoming part of St. Botolph without Aldgate, in 1900), was a component of the Whitechapel Registration District / Poor Law Union (until 1900); but, was not a component of the Parliamentary Borough of Tower Hamlets. It is, however, included here, for the purposes of this analysis.

- Total Population (1891 Census): 74,462

---------

Whitechapel Registration District / Poor Law Union

Census of England & Wales, 1891:
Enumerated Persons, Not Born within the United Kingdom

- Along With -

My Estimates (Percentages and Quantities, from Each 'Country-of-Origin' Sub-Set):
Enumerated Persons, Not Born within the United Kingdom, Likely to Have Been Jewish



Each entry in the "Est. % Jewish" column is a very 'general' estimate of the percentage of its respective "Country of Origin" subset that was Jewish. In order to ensure a very 'general' characteristic in the case of each estimate, and in order to minimize 'bias', the estimates are given in increments of 1/2 cubed, i.e. 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/8; i.e. 12.50%.

The estimates are designed to err on the side of over-estimation, so that I should have good reason to proclaim that the Whitechapel Registration District, in 1888, was 'no more than xx.xx% Jewish'.

The two 'Sub-Total' and 'Total' percentage estimates, it should be noted, are resultant of all of the other percentage estimates. It is understandable, therefore, that they are not given in increments of 12.50%.

---------

The 'Total' percentage estimate, which in this case suggests that 93.41% of all enumerated immigrants living in the Whitechapel Registration District / Poor Law Union, in accordance with the Census of England & Wales, 1891, were Jewish; is surely an over-estimate.

In any case, that equates to 16,778 Jewish immigrants comprising 22.53% of the Whitechapel Registration District's total population of 74,462, in accordance with the 1891 census.

I will propose an estimation that London's Jewish immigrants represented ~50.00% of its overall Jewish population in 1891, and suggest that this representation was uniform throughout each of the Registration Districts in the Metropolis; Whitechapel being no exception.

The reasoning behind this estimation is very simple, but I will have to explain it later.

For the time being, I will simply make note of the fact that I am estimating that 33,556 Jews comprised 45.06% of the Whitechapel Registration District's total population of 74,462, in accordance with the Census of England & Wales, 1891.

This is in all likelihood an over-estimate!

Even if I propose a margin-of-error of 10.00%, i.e. 4.506 percentage points; the estimate remains below fifty percent: 49.57%.

---------

It should also be noted that while the census data that provides the basis for my estimates was gathered in April 1891, the period in which we are interested occurred some two-and-a-half years earlier, in the Autumn of 1888. Surely, the number of Jews living in the Whitechapel Registration District in April 1891 was greater than that of October 1888!

I am quite confident that 1888 Whitechapel was not "predominately Jewish".

[Colin Roberts]

Whitechapel Registration District / Poor Law Union - 1888 (Click Image, to Enlarge in flickr)
Underlying Aerial Imagery: Copyright Google Earth, 2007
Overlying Plots, Labels and Color-Shadings: Copyright Colin C. Roberts, 2010

…

I am quite confident that 1888 Whitechapel was not "predominately Jewish".

Incidentally, I am just as confident that the 1888 immediate vicinity of the killing field of 'Jack the Ripper' …


Accumulation of Probability Distribution (Elliptical): Murder-Site Mean-Center, to Extent of Fifty Percent Accumulation (Click Image, to Enlarge in flickr)
Underlying Aerial Imagery: Copyright Google Earth, 2010
Overlying Plots, Labels and Color-Shadings: Copyright Colin C. Roberts, 2011

… - an area within which I perceive a 50% probability that our perpetrator happened to reside - was not "predominately Jewish".

[Scott Nelson]

Thank you, Colin (aka Septic "Blue"). Very much appreciated.

[Barnaby]

Two things:

1. We're talking about a densely populated Jewish area that is not at all large. One thing that is very common to serial killers, in fact common to human existence is the simple principle that you don't **** where you eat, so to speak. They might bring victims home, but they don't leave a corpse across the street from their house.

But you know that this isn't true, right? There are many cases showing the opposite, Gein, Gacy, Dahmer just off the top of my head.

One might argue that these are exceptions. And I'd agree that most "with it" killers would want to put some distance between themselves and their crimes, but how far? They didn't have cars in those days. A few blocks away might suffice. And killing outside the club you (and many others) hang out at isn't exactly your house.

[Vincenzo]

We know from the GSG incident that the police were trying to keep a lid on the antisemitism that was brewing within Whitechapel. A piece of evidence that might not necessarily have been linked to the murders was destroyed to prevent a riot. This begs the question.... What if the Ripper had been proven to be a Jew? Wouldn't they have wanted to cover this up? Therefore, the Ripper gets carted off to the madhouse, and the case is closed (unofficially), since they never "caught" the man responsible.

Possibly, but that is a hell of a conspiracy to pull off. And after so many years, I feel that SOMEONE would have let the cat out of the bag. Imagine the scoop that would have been for someone close to the case writing their memoirs.

[John Wheat]

Considering Serial Killers tend to murder from within there own social class we might expect a Jewish Ripper to murder Jewish women.

[Errata]

But you know that this isn't true, right? There are many cases showing the opposite, Gein, Gacy, Dahmer just off the top of my head.

One might argue that these are exceptions. And I'd agree that most "with it" killers would want to put some distance between themselves and their crimes, but how far? They didn't have cars in those days. A few blocks away might suffice. And killing outside the club you (and many others) hang out at isn't exactly your house.

If you read what I wrote again, you will notice that I acknowledge that killers bring victims home. Serial killers are often defined by what they do with the body. Some collect the bodies, some dump the bodies, some abandon the bodies. Jack the Ripper abandoned the bodies. Gein, Gacy, Dahmer, Kemper, Christie, Nilsen, the Wests, etc., etc. are all body collectors. Some out of necessity, some out of preference. But their behavior is dictated not only by their own peculiar pathology but by their circumstance. Body abandoners, like Jack, have a different pathology. Different needs, different motives, different circumstances. There is little to no point in comparing the behavior of body collectors and body abandoners. And those who abandon bodies generally don't hunt close to where they are associated. Their home, their work, their club. They don't want to be questioned. Often they are free to abandon the corpse because they know they won't be associated with it. And generally they are correct.

[Abby Normal]

If you read what I wrote again, you will notice that I acknowledge that killers bring victims home. Serial killers are often defined by what they do with the body. Some collect the bodies, some dump the bodies, some abandon the bodies. Jack the Ripper abandoned the bodies. Gein, Gacy, Dahmer, Kemper, Christie, Nilsen, the Wests, etc., etc. are all body collectors. Some out of necessity, some out of preference. But their behavior is dictated not only by their own peculiar pathology but by their circumstance. Body abandoners, like Jack, have a different pathology. Different needs, different motives, different circumstances. There is little to no point in comparing the behavior of body collectors and body abandoners. And those who abandon bodies generally don't hunt close to where they are associated. Their home, their work, their club. They don't want to be questioned. Often they are free to abandon the corpse because they know they won't be associated with it. And generally they are correct.

Great point errata
I would also point out that the torso killer was also a body dumper, as well as an abdomen mutilator.

[Mayerling]

Hello Observer,

4. Not one of the victims was Jewish, despite the murders taking place in a Jewish neighborhood.

In 1887 Israel Lipski, a Jewish man from Poland, was tried and convicted for the murder of Miriam Angel, a Jewish woman. Despite having a Jewish female victim of a Jewish suspect, there was an upsurge in local anti-Semitism. It does not take too much to make bigots come out and show their colors, least of all consistancy and common sense.

Jeff

[Barnaby]

My apologies, Erratta, I did misread your post. Thanks for the clarification.

Automobiles have made it easier for serial killers to put more distance between themselves and the body. And so I'm not quite sure how to judge distance in 1888. Was a few blocks away far enough for a body abandoner?

[Errata]

My apologies, Erratta, I did misread your post. Thanks for the clarification.

Automobiles have made it easier for serial killers to put more distance between themselves and the body. And so I'm not quite sure how to judge distance in 1888. Was a few blocks away far enough for a body abandoner?

Sure. Dumpers are the ones who are concerned with the location of the corpse if they aren't going to keep it (words you never think you will type). On their front lawn is technically far enough away, because they have no connection to the corpse whatsoever. They just walk away. They have no connection to it, don't think anyone else will think they have a connection to it, don't care what happens to it, don't care when it is discovered, or if it is discovered. It's like dropping an empty soda bottle when there is no soda left. It's not the abandonment part that's geographically sensitive. Because these killers have no connection to the corpse, they tend to be less emotionally involved.

Dahmer was a collector, and he was very emotionally needy with his victims. He was attached. He kept them close. Same with Gein. Gacy was also, but in a very different way. He kept the bodies to continue to exert power over them. Also he killed them in his home, and he wasn't going to risk throwing a corpse in his truck to get rid of it. Dumpers are motivated by fear, shock, or privacy. Nobody wants to get caught with a corpse, so dumping them in the woods seems to be the method of choice. Bundy technically dumped his victims before he killed them. He took them to a place where he knew he could visit the remains undisturbed. He wanted privacy, he wanted access, and might have ended up a collector if he was less of a misogynist and didn't live in apartments with girlfriends. But collectors and dumpers both tend to have had some contact with their victims while they were still alive. Most had been seen with the victim, though nobody registered it as a threat at the time. Typically there was a relationship.

Abandoners tend to be pure psychopaths. They tend to be the ones who you can't find a mental illness or personality disorder other than being a psychopath. Everything they want from killing someone they get in a single session. They have no interest in going back, they don't need the body to relive it, it's not personal. They tend to choose victims the way people buy a used car. The victim rates as "good enough" in the important areas, and nothing else matters. There is always some emotion attached to any serial killer murder, or they wouldn't do it. But with abandoners it tends to be a bit more clinical. Take Berkowitz for example. His victims were total strangers whose location and general appearance made them targets. He had no interest in them, and in truth very little interest in whether or not they even died. He wanted power, he wanted to generate fear, and he wanted fame. Done. Abandoners are hard to catch. They can afford to be careful. And their motives are not always plain. But very rarely are they dumb enough to call attention to themselves. Truth be told, this level of psychopath has a tough time concealing what they are. A cop shows up on their door asking if they know anything about the murder next door, it will be very hard for them to hide their psychopathy. Dennis Rader was just a little cold to his wife and kids. But he had a long time with them to have some successes that offset his basic malfunction. He could not hide it from the cops. Also we tend to think that the victim selection has to do with the victim. It doesn't always, and certainly not for abandoners.

Jack wanted prostitutes, he wanted secure locations to kill in, and whatever else he got out of it was about him, not the victim. He wasn't punishing these women. That's personal. That's a relationship even if they had never met. Maybe he may have been taking out his anger or frustration on these women as surrogates for someone else, but that has nothing to do with the women he killed. That's him. It's not them. He didn't need these five women. Any woman who fit his needs would have worked. I think he likely went trolling for victims every week. He didn't kill every week because he didn't always find the conditions he needed. But because there was no relationship, he was not pushed into less than ideal circumstances. He didn't fixate enough on any one woman that he was forced to kill someone on his doorstep. He had options. He could wait. He could pick another victim.

[Harry D]

It doesn't work like that Harry.

Okay, let's say we had a Ripper-esque murderer in the heart of Harlem, or any particular suburb with a large demographic of people from one ethnic group. We'd be looking for someone with a good knowledge of the area and someone who'd be able to blend in without attracting too much unnecessary attention. It doesn't necessarily follow that the murderer would be black/Asian/Jewish etc. but the probability is that they would be.

Come on Harry, you are convinced Levy was the Ripper.

Ad homimem. What I personally believe doesn't matter. The salient fact is that there IS a Jewish connection to the Ripper case, whether people like it or not.

If the Swanson marginalia is genuine then Kosminski seems to be Anderson's Jewish suspect. Someone informed Macnaghten Kosminski was a suspect, so yes, we have a Jewish suspect. Any evidence suggesting Kosminski was the Ripper? In my opinion no.

And if the Swanson marginalia is to be believed, then it couldn't have been Kosminski, because the guy didn't die until 1919. Whatever way you slice it, we have a Jewish suspect who certain police officials at the time believed to be the Ripper. Whether he WAS the Ripper is indeed debatable, but that wasn't the original point, was it?

Really? So how would one describe a swarthy foreigner who was not a Jew?

Good point. Political correctness certainly complicates matter.

There aren't any decent suspects Harry. I'll come off the fence when one is presented. How about that?

What is it about Jacob Levy that doesn't impress you as a suspect?

[Colin Roberts]

Very much appreciated.

Well, by you anyway, Scott.

No one else seems to have noticed; especially Mr. D.

I've got similar statistics and estimates of Jewish populations for the Hamlet of Mile End Old Town and the Parish of St. George in the East, and I could compile them for the City Of London and the Parish of St. Matthew Bethnal Green; but I don't think that very many posters would care.

Casebook used to be a repository for meaningful research. Now it's just a cheap chat room.

[MrBarnett]

Well, by you anyway, Scott.

No one else seems to have noticed; especially Mr. D.

I've got similar statistics and estimates of Jewish populations for the Hamlet of Mile End Old Town and the Parish of St. George in the East, and I could compile them for the City Of London and the Parish of St. Matthew Bethnal Green; but I don't think that very many posters would care.

Casebook used to be a repository for meaningful research. Now it's just a cheap chat room.

Colin,

Your return to the boards is a welcome relief from the endless suspectological tit for tat. Please stick around. And perhaps we can get people posting on the East End photos thread again. Aahh, that would be good!

MrB