So would he have run?

[Fisherman]

Barnaby: Fisherman,

I found your post in #249 to be incredibly insightful.

Hooray!!! Caz just told me that it would not be worth reading, plus that it pointed out that I lacked a life. Things are looking up, I must say!

To be completely redundant with him but given others aren't addressing the issue, the acoustics potentially allowed both Cross and Paul to hear each other from far off. First, we know Paul heard nothing until he was basically on the scene.

Itīs actually worse - he did not hear anything at all, until he suddenly saw Lechmere standing in the middle of the street. He could have stood there since Thursday morning for all Paul knew.

That must mean Cross had been there for at least a little while, no?

Yes, it goes a fair way to prove that, actually, at least to my mind. Keep in mind that Paul lived in Foster Street, running into to Bath Street, the route Lechmere would in all probability have used. And Paul lived some thirty, forty yards up Foster Street, so IF Paul had been just thirty, forty yards behind Lechmere, then he seemingly would have been so for a stretch of perhaps 250-300 yards, without the two seeing or hearing each other throughout. Also keep in mind that Lechmere claimed to have left Doveton Street at 3.20 or 3.30. It would have taken him 6-7 minutes to reach Browns Stable Yard, so he should have been there at 3.26 - 3.37, and not at 3.45.
This means that we have a time gap of 8-19 minutes to explain. The same time gap is the potential time frame in which Lechmere would have chatted up Nichols, followed her into Buckīs Row, punched her in the face, strangled or very nearly strangled her, and then cut away at her.
It was only after that Paul arrived, many minutes after Lechmere.

Second, if Cross were innocent, upon first hearing footsteps, wouldn't he go to seek help in that direction?

I would. You would. Caz perhaps wouldnīt. She couldnīt be arsed to put the question to herself.

What I liked most about the post, however, was the portrayal of Cross as an improviser, not a maximizer. That is, he wasn't a robot calculating the odds of being apprehended based on various strategies that he could employ. He heard someone approaching who may actually be a witness and in the few moments he had initiated a highly malleable plan of action.

All we have on him speaks of a man who thought very quickly on his feet, and who provided solutions as best as he could as he went along. Some solutions were decidedly risky, but he was forced to make such decisions anyway. So he improvised, just like you say.

Thanks for you kind words, Barnaby - much, much appreciated, I can assure you.

All the best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Hi Christer

Why shout and wake up the whole street at that time of the morning ?
Cross could see Paul was heading his way.

Did PC Neil blow his whistle ?

He did not need to shout, Jon. Paul tried to pass him at armīs length, but Lechmere would not allow that. At that stage, Lechmere could have whispered in Pauls ear if he wished to. It was dead quiet around them.

There is also the fact to consider that Lechmere said that the other man seemed to be frightened of him. Then why not friendly and gently say "Hello there! Could you help out here?"

Would it be cleverer to stand menacingly in the middle of the street, to block the way for the oncomer, to physically reach for him, given this?

On a separate note, if you yourself was to find somebody lying in the street, quite possibly in a very severe condition, what would you prioritize: the healt and condition of the person lying in the street, or an undisturbed nights sleep for residents in the street?

The best,
Fisherman

[caz]

I've explained to you an obscene amount of times now that if the police ever had the real Astrakhan man in their custody, there was no possibility of proving him innocent of the Kelly murder.

Ooh, just before I go...

So Ben, if Abberline had suspected Hutchinson after his interrogation, instead of believing him, and he'd ended up in custody, there would have been no possibility of proving him innocent of the Kelly murder either.

But haven't you always argued that Hutchinson had nothing to fear because even if he was a lousy liar and made a right old pig's ear of things the police could not have held him in custody, but would have had to let him go? Why would his situation have been any different from Astrakhan's?

I'll just leave that with you to ponder, because I have no intention of getting into another interminable Hutchinson discussion any time soon.

Love,

Caz
X

[Jon Guy]

He did not need to shout, Jon.

I know, Christer. It was you who asked why he didn`t call out to the approaching Paul for assistance, instead of waiting for him to pass by.

Paul tried to pass him at armīs length, but Lechmere would not allow that.

Paul was concerned about the gangs in the area and his actions are reasonable considering Cross may have been someone, possibly with nearby hidden confederates, waiting to turn him over.

Without knowing their physical builds (I`m waiting for Ed`s book to see the Lechmere photo), Paul was about 30yrs old, ten years younger than old man Cross. My money is on the thirty year old !!

At that stage, Lechmere could have whispered in Pauls ear if he wished to
all friendly and gently say "Hello there! Could you help out here?"

Paul might have bopped him one then, thinking Cross was making a pass at him ;-)

On a separate note, if you yourself was to find somebody lying in the street, quite possibly in a very severe condition, what would you prioritize: the healt and condition of the person lying in the street, or an undisturbed nights sleep for residents in the street?

Goes to show that Cross didn't know the true extent of what was going on with Nichols at this point.

[Fisherman]

Jon Guy: I know, Christer. It was you who asked why he didn`t call out to the approaching Paul for assistance, instead of waiting for him to pass by.

You can call out in a soft voice too, Jon.

Paul was concerned about the gangs in the area and his actions are reasonable considering Cross may have been someone, possibly with nearby hidden confederates, waiting to turn him over.

Without knowing their physical builds (I`m waiting for Ed`s book to see the Lechmere photo), Paul was about 30yrs old, ten years younger than old man Cross. My money is on the thirty year old !!

What is of interest here is that Lechmere claimed to have seen Pauls fear shining through, and so he should reasonably not have kept quiet himself, but instead perhaps have calmed Pauls by reasserting that he had no bad intentions.

Paul might have bopped him one then, thinking Cross was making a pass at him ;-)

Yeah, well ...

Goes to show that Cross didn't know the true extent of what was going on with Nichols at this point.

... or that he couldnīt care less, Jon, knowing quite well that she was already dead.

The best,
Fisherman