Rating The Suspects.

[Herlock Sholmes]

How about this?

(C) > 4 = murder caused by a knife (or very similar weapon)/ 3 = murder (including the use of a knife)/ 2 = wounding with a knife/ 1 = threatening with a knife or physical violence using a weapon/ 0 = no violence (with knife or otherwise)

?

[Herlock Sholmes]

I notice from your list you have not mentioned who I believe is a prime suspect Carl Feigenbaum, aka Anton Zahn a German Merchant seaman who at the time of the murders was employed as a German Merchant seaman for the Nordeutscher German Shipping line, which had merchant ships in London on the dates of all the murders. He can formally be identified through crew lists as being In London as late as 1891 the date of the Coles murder.

Following him leaving the sea he emigrated to New York when in 1896 he murdered a woman by cutting her throat. He was arrested fleeing the scene and executed in 1896. He told his lawyer prior to execution that he was in London at the time of the murders and his lawyer believed him to have been JTR.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

It’s nothing personal Trevor but I can’t put him in unless we can show that he was definitely in the country. I realise that this might be frustrating for you as you rate him highly as a suspect. I know that you searched the passenger lists but couldn’t find evidence that he was here at the right time. If evidence was found to show that he was here he’d be on the list.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Did someone mention cricket?

Not long until the holy grail commences in Australia. The Ashes! In case anyone was wondering. The best from blighty against the colonials. Bring it on!!

Hi George,

For a while I’ve been fearing a trouncing for England (and it still might happen) but England are playing well and with some confidence. So maybe we can make it a close series? I think that we need a good start though. Sadly, I never fancy England to come from behind and especially not a side as ruthless as the Aussies. Let’s hope at least that it’s an interesting series (and when I say ‘interesting’ I don’t mean a series where England beat all of the ‘low scoring’ records)

[Herlock Sholmes]

I am very much so....funnily enough though Ian Bell was my favourite cricketer, saw him get a century against Pakistan at Headingly can't remember the year.. at his peak he would have been great in the current side
I found Druitt extremely interesting, but its when the facts are skewed by some authors favourite, i tend to dismiss it and I think it was on here or a podcast where it was posited that Druitts form had dropped off..Then saw in his last games he took 5 for not many in one game and 3 in the other, so wondered "God knows what he was like when he was "ON" form lol

And funnily enough too..since I was a kid I was always a big fan of a guy called Geoffrey (who, as a Yorkshire cricket fan, you might possibly have heard of) Ian Bell was an excellent batsmen and as you say, for a period, he was as good as anyone around.

I agree, it’s when people go past thinking “this guy is worth looking at further,” to seeing everything, no matter how ludicrous, as pointing to guilt.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Puckridge should be E = 0 since he was suspected, but exonerated at the time.

I get annoyed at myself for errors like this one but they have to be put right so thanks for pointing it out Fiver. I’ll change it for the next version,

[andy1867]

[andy1867]

Did someone mention cricket?

Not long until the holy grail commences in Australia. The Ashes! In case anyone was wondering. The best from blighty against the colonials. Bring it on!!

Australia toured in 1888...I can manage to try and pin the Polly Nicholl murder on them, they were playing at Portsmouth
2 hours by train...(Doable) ...Annie Chapman...thetywere in Scarborough...difficult...They were at The Oval Sept 22nd...I don;t know what date they returned to Oz, but may have stayed a week and had time for Stride and Eddows

Struggling with MJK, unless one of them missed the boat...

I'm still researching .....

[GBinOz]

Did someone mention cricket?

Not long until the holy grail commences in Australia. The Ashes! In case anyone was wondering. The best from blighty against the colonials. Bring it on!!

[Trevor Marriott]

Good points c.d.

We’ve had this suspect/person of interest discussion on here before but I’ve never understood why it should be thought of as important. If we did distinguish between suspects and persons of interest it would just introduce something else for us to disagree on. If you thought someone deserved to be a suspect but I thought that they should only be a person of interest how would we decide? Would we nominate someone to be the oracle who makes the final decision? Vote? Would we still accept the decision?

I notice from your list you have not mentioned who I believe is a prime suspect Carl Feigenbaum, aka Anton Zahn a German Merchant seaman who at the time of the murders was employed as a German Merchant seaman for the Nordeutscher German Shipping line, which had merchant ships in London on the dates of all the murders. He can formally be identified through crew lists as being In London as late as 1891 the date of the Coles murder.

Following him leaving the sea he emigrated to New York when in 1896 he murdered a woman by cutting her throat. He was arrested fleeing the scene and executed in 1896. He told his lawyer prior to execution that he was in London at the time of the murders and his lawyer believed him to have been JTR.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[andy1867]

There’s nothing uninformed about that opinion Andy. I’d say that perhaps the likeliest ‘solution’ is that it’s an as yet unnamed man, whether a local or not.

(It sounds like you are a fellow cricket fan, I’m from the West Mids but you are of the White Rose variety I assume)

I am very much so....funnily enough though Ian Bell was my favourite cricketer, saw him get a century against Pakistan at Headingly can't remember the year.. at his peak he would have been great in the current side
I found Druitt extremely interesting, but its when the facts are skewed by some authors favourite, i tend to dismiss it and I think it was on here or a podcast where it was posited that Druitts form had dropped off..Then saw in his last games he took 5 for not many in one game and 3 in the other, so wondered "God knows what he was like when he was "ON" form lol

[GBinOz]

It seems like wounding should be counted as worse than threatening,

Yes, I agree. I am put in mind of the Henry Fonda argument in 12 Angry Men regarding hollow threats, and it being disagreed with until his opponent himself uttered a threat in a fit of anger. I tend to regard the alleged threat by Aaron Kosminsky towards his sister in this manner.

[Fiver]

Amendment #17

(E) Police interest > 2 = at the time (without exoneration)/1 = later (within 10 yrs and without exoneration)/0 = none known or not serious.

--- (A) (B) (C) (D) (E) (F) (G) (H) ---

09 = 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 : Puckridge, Oswald

Puckridge should be E = 0 since he was suspected, but exonerated at the time.

[Fiver]

(C) > 4 = committed murder with a knife/ 3 = used a knife during a murder/ 2 = wounding or threatening with a knife/ 2 = violence without a knife/ 0 = no known violence

I still have the question about fitting in Kelly.

Any thoughts?

It seems like wounding should be counted as worse than threatening, especially if the wounding was a failed attempt at killing. Likewise, someone who cut, or tried to cut a victim's neck should count higher than someone who stabbed the victim in the chest.

Perhaps
4 Murder
3 Attempted murder
2 Assault
1 Threats

Targeted the throat +1 to the above.
Alternate method of attack (Poison, etc) -1 to above.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I don’t want to over-complicate the criteria but I haven’t been happy with the (C) violence section since I changed it a while ago. I want it to be fair but it’s tricky. I’m not happy with raising the importance of the victim being a relative or not. It’s about the capacity for murder. I’ve pretty much made my mind up to remove it. It’s currently this:

(C) Violence > 4 = killed woman (non-relative) with knife/3 = killed female relative with knife/

2 = violence with a knife/1 = violence without a knife/0 = no known violence.


I certainly wouldn’t be comfortable with leaving Kelly out of this section because he killed with a chisel. To me stabbing someone in the neck with a chisel is the same as doing it with a knife. So this is a possible (though it seems a bit clumsy to me):


(C) > 4 = killed a woman using a knife/ 3 = used a knife during the murder of a woman or used a tool to cut or stab/ 2 = the wounding or threatening of a woman with a knife/ 2 = violence without a knife/ 0 = no known violence


Or, I could simplify it further:


(C) > 4 = committed murder with a knife/ 3 = used a knife during a murder/ 2 = wounding or threatening with a knife/ 2 = violence without a knife/ 0 = no known violence

I still have the question about fitting in Kelly.



Any thoughts?

[c.d.]

I see no real point or benefit to having to use an asterisk every time we use the word suspect with an explanatory note of well he was actually more of a person of interest.

I think we are probably done with this discussion unless someone wants to take it in another direction.

c.d.