Leary and Law, further reading?

[rjpalmer]

John Leary #2 from Cork County, Ireland.

[rjpalmer]

John Leary #1. Next four pages.

[rjpalmer]

This is John Leary #1, who enlisted in Wales. First three pages of seven.

[rjpalmer]

It's a start. Thank you very much.

Hi A P,

Regarding the two men named John Leary traced by Phil Sugden...

Gary Barnett, a talented researcher who unraveled the mysteries of Alice McKenzie's personal history (you've probably seen him over on JTR Forums) noticed your post and contacted me through a mutual correspondent, sending along the attestation papers for both men.

This should help. And let me express my thanks to Gary for his generosity, as I've never seen them, either.

I'll post them presently--twelve pages in all.

[A P Tomlinson]

I may have missed it, but I've never seen where much progress has been made since Phil Sugden looked into it.

What Sugden was up against is that there were two John Learys in the Grenadier Guards in 1888, one from Wales and the other from Cork County, Ireland. Without knowing the suspect's age, and it doesn't seem to have been recorded anywhere, there was no way of knowing which was which. He was also going from pension records, so it was theoretically possible there may have been another John Leary.

I think there was even less information on John Law.

This is one of the two men named John Leary identified by Sugden in the Royal Hospital Chelse Pensioners records, but I'm not able to access the originals, though if you can find someone with an account to Fold3 they should be able to download them.


Name John Leary
Enlistment Age 22
Birth Date abt 1864
Birth Place Baldy Sourney Cork
Enlistment Year 1886
Attestation Paper Yes

"Baldy Sourney" is, I suspect, Ballyvourney, County Cork, but for reasons I do not know Sugden has the man born in Macroom, Cork, which is about 17 kilometers away.

The second John Leary was from Glamorganshire, Wales, and was listed as having "exemplary conduct."

Not much help, I know.

It's a start. Thank you very much.

[rjpalmer]

Does anyone know of any subsequent research into who they were, which regiment they belonged to, and any potential for matching duty rosters to the time line, etc?

I may have missed it, but I've never seen where much progress has been made since Phil Sugden looked into it.

What Sugden was up against is that there were two John Learys in the Grenadier Guards in 1888, one from Wales and the other from Cork County, Ireland. Without knowing the suspect's age, and it doesn't seem to have been recorded anywhere, there was no way of knowing which was which. He was also going from pension records, so it was theoretically possible there may have been another John Leary.

I think there was even less information on John Law.

This is one of the two men named John Leary identified by Sugden in the Royal Hospital Chelse Pensioners records, but I'm not able to access the originals, though if you can find someone with an account to Fold3 they should be able to download them.


Name John Leary
Enlistment Age 22
Birth Date abt 1864
Birth Place Baldy Sourney Cork
Enlistment Year 1886
Attestation Paper Yes

"Baldy Sourney" is, I suspect, Ballyvourney, County Cork, but for reasons I do not know Sugden has the man born in Macroom, Cork, which is about 17 kilometers away.

The second John Leary was from Glamorganshire, Wales, and was listed as having "exemplary conduct."

Not much help, I know.

[A P Tomlinson]

I've just been reading up on some of the details surrounding the Martha Tabram murder, and I'm struggling to find much in the way of any digging that might have been done in regard to the soldiers John, "Leary and Law". Leary being the solider picked out by PC Barrett, and Law being his alibi.

Does anyone know of any subsequent research into who they were, which regiment they belonged to, and any potential for matching duty rosters to the time line, etc?

Not trying to create a new suspect theory, but it's just something that I imagined would have had more "further reading" to go at. Most threads one pulls at in this case end up having a book or two with additional history and notes, and I'm simply interested in digging a bit deeper.