Edward Buckley

[New Ford Shunt]

The only additional point I would make is this;

The entirety of this section relies on having the correct Buckley from the 1911 census.

As long as the "Hawker" you mentioned above is DEFINITELY the correct Buckley (based on the same process you have explained with the prison records being matched to the assaults on Frances Jones) then it is then absolutely and definitively watertight from every angle possible.

Is there proof that the 1911 census Buckley is correct? It appears to be the only area that isn't conclusive.

Every other aspect has been completely explained and proven apart from the 1911 census (and 1917) "Hawker" link that has been made.

Do the next of kin details on his prison releases match the data given by the Hawker Buckley, ergo, his sister's name and address?

RD

Sorry, I should have made it clear, the 1911 census has him down as a cigar maker in a lodging house in Whitechapel.

[The Rookie Detective]

Sorry, I should have made it clear, the 1911 census has him down as a cigar maker in a lodging house in Whitechapel.

That sounds conclusive to me.

Thank you for clarifying that.

So I guess it leaves us with the tantalising question... Was Buckley the Ripper?

What I find very intriguing is that he was PROVEN to have...

Stabbed an unfortunate (Frances) in the abdomen, in the street yards from a railway arch with a knife

Stabbed the same woman again as she lay on her bed and inflicting a cutting mark that is almost identical to facial marks inflicted by the ripper on other victims.

BOTH attacks PROVEN to have been PRE-MEDITATED...

(he wrote Frances a letter to meet up prior to the street attack AND he locked the door prior to cutting her face on the bed)

He is also PROVEN to have punched Frances in the face (jaw) in the pub with no apparent fear of recourse.

He is also PROVEN to have lived on the top floor of 14 Hanbury Street, from which he would have been able to see the door of 29 Hanbury St on the other side of the road.

He was also a CIGAR MAKER who frequented COFFEE HOUSES... Reminiscent of a certain Goldstein who had left a coffee house and was seen walking down Berner Street shortly before Stride was murdered. His black bag apparently full of empty cigarette packets.
The yard in which Stride was murdered had several Cigar makers living on the southern side of the yard.
We also have the potential sighting of Pipeman, smoking a cigar.
Eddowes told the officer on duty at the police station the night she was murdered, that she was Mary Kelly from Fashion Street.

Fashion Street is the same street that Edwards father was attacked by Donovan years previous.

Fashion Street was also the heart of the cigar making trade and Cigar factories were within close proximity.

That means Buckley is connected to Hanbury St directly and possibly to the site of Stride's murder through his profession as a Cigar Maker.

The only negative I can see is his habitual drunkenness. That seems to not fit with the ripper's mindset.
Or does it?

Perhaps his blatant lying with regards to his age, ergo, making himself 10 years older than he actually was, is a clue to his abilities to deceive.
The idea of who would suspect a habitual drunk as being a psychopathic killer, is perhaps our biggest clue.

What if the entire drunken thing was just one big act, so that he would be outwardly perceived as a bit of a clown by always getting himself in trouble through relatively minor offenses.
And what if we see the REAL Buckley when he appears to attempt murdering her on more than one occasion?

He gave 2 different ages almost a decade apart, and so what if that's the example of him living through 2 different personality types?

We know from Jurriaan and Johnathan's exceptional research efforts that Buckley changed his name and his age repeatedly, and so that behaviour in itself can go some way to explaining why he appears to have 2 different personalities...the calculated knife fiend with a desire to cut and stab an unfortunate, mixed with the older persona of being an older drunk who committed petty crimes.

On that basis, no one would have suspected Buckley at the time, because he covered his true self by committing theft and public disturbances as an unruly drunk.

I would suggest that the real Buckley only surfaced when he was stabbing and cutting Frances, and the rest of the time he was acting out and playing up to the stigma of being a drink.

Ultimately I believe that there's a very good chance that Buckley could have been the ripper.

The next step...to see if ANY of Buckley's family LIVED in the yard in which Stride was murdered.

And to see if ANY of his family lived in Fashion St

He is linked to Hanbury Street but if he can also be linked to some of the other sites, it would strengthen the case for Buckley even more.

We also need to ascertain what happened to Frances Jones?

I believe he killed her...and if he did....she may have been one of the torso victims....

Food for thought


RD

[Lewis C]

Hi Lewis you make a great point here . That report from April refers to an earlier report - we would dearly love to be able to find it . We have no doubts that we have the right Edward here using that alias - the question is the report of the 14th April was that the date he was imprisoned or was it later .Like you say it has a bearing on Alice and I favour her as a victim . Thank you for taking time to read the research - Jonathan

Thanks, Jonathan.

[Abby Normal]

That sounds conclusive to me.

Thank you for clarifying that.

So I guess it leaves us with the tantalising question... Was Buckley the Ripper?

What I find very intriguing is that he was PROVEN to have...

Stabbed an unfortunate (Frances) in the abdomen, in the street yards from a railway arch with a knife

Stabbed the same woman again as she lay on her bed and inflicting a cutting mark that is almost identical to facial marks inflicted by the ripper on other victims.

BOTH attacks PROVEN to have been PRE-MEDITATED...

(he wrote Frances a letter to meet up prior to the street attack AND he locked the door prior to cutting her face on the bed)

He is also PROVEN to have punched Frances in the face (jaw) in the pub with no apparent fear of recourse.

He is also PROVEN to have lived on the top floor of 14 Hanbury Street, from which he would have been able to see the door of 29 Hanbury St on the other side of the road.

He was also a CIGAR MAKER who frequented COFFEE HOUSES... Reminiscent of a certain Goldstein who had left a coffee house and was seen walking down Berner Street shortly before Stride was murdered. His black bag apparently full of empty cigarette packets.
The yard in which Stride was murdered had several Cigar makers living on the southern side of the yard.
We also have the potential sighting of Pipeman, smoking a cigar.
Eddowes told the officer on duty at the police station the night she was murdered, that she was Mary Kelly from Fashion Street.

Fashion Street is the same street that Edwards father was attacked by Donovan years previous.

Fashion Street was also the heart of the cigar making trade and Cigar factories were within close proximity.

That means Buckley is connected to Hanbury St directly and possibly to the site of Stride's murder through his profession as a Cigar Maker.

The only negative I can see is his habitual drunkenness. That seems to not fit with the ripper's mindset.
Or does it?

Perhaps his blatant lying with regards to his age, ergo, making himself 10 years older than he actually was, is a clue to his abilities to deceive.
The idea of who would suspect a habitual drunk as being a psychopathic killer, is perhaps our biggest clue.

What if the entire drunken thing was just one big act, so that he would be outwardly perceived as a bit of a clown by always getting himself in trouble through relatively minor offenses.
And what if we see the REAL Buckley when he appears to attempt murdering her on more than one occasion?

He gave 2 different ages almost a decade apart, and so what if that's the example of him living through 2 different personality types?

We know from Jurriaan and Johnathan's exceptional research efforts that Buckley changed his name and his age repeatedly, and so that behaviour in itself can go some way to explaining why he appears to have 2 different personalities...the calculated knife fiend with a desire to cut and stab an unfortunate, mixed with the older persona of being an older drunk who committed petty crimes.

On that basis, no one would have suspected Buckley at the time, because he covered his true self by committing theft and public disturbances as an unruly drunk.

I would suggest that the real Buckley only surfaced when he was stabbing and cutting Frances, and the rest of the time he was acting out and playing up to the stigma of being a drink.

Ultimately I believe that there's a very good chance that Buckley could have been the ripper.

The next step...to see if ANY of Buckley's family LIVED in the yard in which Stride was murdered.

And to see if ANY of his family lived in Fashion St

He is linked to Hanbury Street but if he can also be linked to some of the other sites, it would strengthen the case for Buckley even more.

We also need to ascertain what happened to Frances Jones?

I believe he killed her...and if he did....she may have been one of the torso victims....

Food for thought


RD

what year was it tje last time he stabbed this poor woman?

[The Rookie Detective]

what year was it tje last time he stabbed this poor woman?

He stabbed her on 2 separate occasions, in 1884 and again in 1885.

The key thing that is significant about Edward Buckley; is that he inflicted abdominal wounds in 1884 and a deliberate cutting and marking to her face in 1885.

When you combine the details of both attacks, there are similarities to the ripper killings in terms of locations; close to a railway arch in the street (1884) and inside a locked bedroom (1885)...in terms of types of wounds inflicted; abdominal stabbing (1884) and cutting the face from nose to cheek (1885)...

There's also the proximity to 29 Hanbury Street; he definitely lived as a lodger on the top floor of the coffee house at 14 Hanbury Street, from which you can literally see the door to 29 Hanbury Street just a few yards away on the opposite side of the street.

The one thing that goes against him is his habitual drunkenness; and pick-pocketing.

This doesn't appear to fit with a man with Psychopathic traits.
It would be unusual for example for a psychopath to be a habitual drinker, simply due to the diminished amount of control he would have had if intoxicated repeatedly.

It COULD fit if he BEGAN with petty theft and sporadic bouts of violence, and THEN progressed to using a knife to cut and stab his paramour in Frances Jones. That progression would fit.
However, with Edward Buckley the reverse seems to apply. The 2 separate knife attacks on Frances Jones, as well as punching her in the face and his assault on the cab driver, were all relatively early on in his career as an offender.
This is evidenced by the fact that the vast majority of his convictions came AFTER the Ripper murders and mainly for petty theft and pick-pocketing.
This is very unusual because he seems to become LESS violent as time goes on.

And so, if we want to take him seriously as a potential person of interest/suspect in the ripper case, we need to look for a valid reason WHY his criminal path appears to run the wrong way.

A possible answer to this perhaps surrounds the unknown fate of Frances Jones, because the research seems to suggest that she effectively disappears from the records.

That in itself is particularly unusual.

And so, could Buckley have murdered Frances Jones?
Could killing her have been the culmination of his killing spree against unfortunates?

The fate of Frances Jones is intrinsically linked to the chosen behaviour of Edward Buckley.

I don't believe he would have just accepted letting her go and so I believe that IF he was the ripper, he murdered Frances Jones and there-in ended his killing spree. He then resorted to petty theft and declaring he was a decade older than he was to draw suspicion AWAY from him having been the Ripper, bearing in mind that the police were looking for a man of a certain age and so could that explain WHY he repeatedly claimed he was born between 1840-1847, when in actual fact he was born a decade later and thus would have actually been 34 when the Ripper murders took place.

I believe that the blatant and obvious discrepancy in his given age; is his way of drawing attention away from him being a possible ripper suspect.

..but I have one other tantalizing question...one which I will ask in a separate post...


RD

[Abby Normal]

He stabbed her on 2 separate occasions, in 1884 and again in 1885.

The key thing that is significant about Edward Buckley; is that he inflicted abdominal wounds in 1884 and a deliberate cutting and marking to her face in 1885.

When you combine the details of both attacks, there are similarities to the ripper killings in terms of locations; close to a railway arch in the street (1884) and inside a locked bedroom (1885)...in terms of types of wounds inflicted; abdominal stabbing (1884) and cutting the face from nose to cheek (1885)...

There's also the proximity to 29 Hanbury Street; he definitely lived as a lodger on the top floor of the coffee house at 14 Hanbury Street, from which you can literally see the door to 29 Hanbury Street just a few yards away on the opposite side of the street.

The one thing that goes against him is his habitual drunkenness; and pick-pocketing.

This doesn't appear to fit with a man with Psychopathic traits.
It would be unusual for example for a psychopath to be a habitual drinker, simply due to the diminished amount of control he would have had if intoxicated repeatedly.

It COULD fit if he BEGAN with petty theft and sporadic bouts of violence, and THEN progressed to using a knife to cut and stab his paramour in Frances Jones. That progression would fit.
However, with Edward Buckley the reverse seems to apply. The 2 separate knife attacks on Frances Jones, as well as punching her in the face and his assault on the cab driver, were all relatively early on in his career as an offender.
This is evidenced by the fact that the vast majority of his convictions came AFTER the Ripper murders and mainly for petty theft and pick-pocketing.
This is very unusual because he seems to become LESS violent as time goes on.

And so, if we want to take him seriously as a potential person of interest/suspect in the ripper case, we need to look for a valid reason WHY his criminal path appears to run the wrong way.

A possible answer to this perhaps surrounds the unknown fate of Frances Jones, because the research seems to suggest that she effectively disappears from the records.

That in itself is particularly unusual.

And so, could Buckley have murdered Frances Jones?
Could killing her have been the culmination of his killing spree against unfortunates?

The fate of Frances Jones is intrinsically linked to the chosen behaviour of Edward Buckley.

I don't believe he would have just accepted letting her go and so I believe that IF he was the ripper, he murdered Frances Jones and there-in ended his killing spree. He then resorted to petty theft and declaring he was a decade older than he was to draw suspicion AWAY from him having been the Ripper, bearing in mind that the police were looking for a man of a certain age and so could that explain WHY he repeatedly claimed he was born between 1840-1847, when in actual fact he was born a decade later and thus would have actually been 34 when the Ripper murders took place.

I believe that the blatant and obvious discrepancy in his given age; is his way of drawing attention away from him being a possible ripper suspect.

..but I have one other tantalizing question...one which I will ask in a separate post...


RD

thanks rd
where was he in the fall of 1888?

[Jonathan Tye]

what year was it tje last time he stabbed this poor woman?

The last recorded attack we have by Edward on Frances occurs in May 1888 she then dissapears from the records . We can trace Edward to the end of August that year . He was in and out of prison for the first six months . He was released on one occasion on the Friday of the bank holiday weekend in august that ended in Tabrams murder .
tegards
Jonathan tye .
you can read our full research on the jtr forums and a published article via Adam woods crime through time magazine.

[The Rookie Detective]

what year was it tje last time he stabbed this poor woman?

Ah, just to confirm that the last time he stabbed Frances Jones was in 1885.

As Johnathan correctly says, he was last recorded as attacking Frances Jones in May 1888, but that was with his fists...
Perhaps reminiscent of the man that punched the unfortunate who was with Frances Coles, shortly before Frances herself was found murdered under the railway arch after going off with the man who had just assaulted the other woman.

What is tantalisingly apparent is that the Ripper murders appear to have started very soon after Frances Jones seems to disappear.

Coincidence or catalyst?

I put it to you that Frances Jones was one of the torso murder victims.

The question is... Was there a torso victim murdered shortly AFTER May 1888?


RD

[The Rookie Detective]

The other questions I have regarding Edward Buckley's relationship with Frances Jones that I'd like to throw out there is this...

Did Frances Jones seem to disappear in May/June 1888 because he murdered her?

Did Frances Jones manage to finally evade Edward and run away somewhere?

Did Frances Jones actively try to change her name and identity to try and escape Edward?

Could Frances Jones have been leading a double life?

...

And of course, there's always room for an outlandish question...

Is there any chance whatsoever that Frances Jones was Mary Jane Kelly?

Worth asking, just for the sake of asking.


RD

[Jonathan Tye]

Below is a link to the interview with historian Richard Jones regarding our work on Buckley

https://youtu.be/N18W5Gd4Ep8?si=lHMRLXIpJEJY2Hmc

[Abby Normal]

thanks gents
fascinating. i find it particularly interesting he was released from jail the weekend tabram was murdered.

Do we have a physical desription of him?

[The Rookie Detective]

thanks gents
fascinating. i find it particularly interesting he was released from jail the weekend tabram was murdered.

Do we have a physical desription of him?

Even better Abby...

We have a PHOTO of him taken in January1903 (just after the new year)

It's his mug shot from his police record.

It's says he's 64 but we know because of Johnathan and Jurriaan's exceptional research work, that he was actually 34 at the time of the Ripper murders and only 48 in that photo! (49 later that year)

He managed to pass himself off as a 64 year old, when he was only 48.
THAT would explain why witness accounts DIFFER when reporting age.

He was only 5ft 4" (about 5ft 6" in boots I would imagine)

He was fair of complexion with GREY eyes.

That again would explain WHY multiple witnessed mention very specifically mentioning the suspects EYES.
Grey eyes are A-typical and would be more noticeable because they were different to the norm.

The photo of him is on the front cover of the publication to which Johnathan refers to.

It's important to clarify that Johnathan and Jurriaan are the leading lights on this particular suspect and they literally have all the data that you need.

I had identified an Edward Buckley a few months ago, through finding him being referenced in the newspaper as the man who stabbed a man at 26 Dorset Street in 1888, but then realised that for some reason unknown, this was instead a man named Henry Buckley, who has already been researched on this forum previously.
I knew that Edward went by different aliases (including Henry) and so again I considered that Henry and Edward were the same man....I was in the midst of diggin deeper when this thread was started with a reference to Richard Jone's new video and the mention of Edward Buckley.
I then realised that someone else had also been looking at Edward, but the big difference being that I was on the wrong path.
I had been trying to establish his timeline, but thankfully I soon came to discover that I had gone wrong with researching Edward's antecedents and so my research was incorrect in terms of his family etc... Johnathan and Jurriaan's extensive research has helped to save me spending any more time on the wrong path and I thank them sincerely for their awesome work on this.

I've had a feeling that Edward Buckley was the ripper since I noticed the newspaper article stating and Edward Buckley had stabbed a man at 26 Dorset Street. I also had found the 2 separate knife attacks on Frances Jones and it was from then that I began to look at Edward as a suspect.
I'm relieved that, at the exact same time there were Johnathan and Jurriaan doing the same thing, the difference as I say being that I had steered onto the wrong path whilst Johnathan and Jurriaan had stuck to the correct Edward Buckley.

But I digress...

The photo of Edward Buckley is available online.

Take a look and let us know what you think?

I personally think he stands out and there's an inherent awareness in his eyes that shows defiance and elude to a man who's much more clever than his criminal record gives him credit for.

I personally think that we have found an absolutely brilliant person of interest and I would urge anyone on this site to look at Johnathan and Jurriaan's research, because when the dust settles I t think even more will be discovered about Edward Buckley.

RD

[The Rookie Detective]

I would upload the photo of Edward Buckley, because I have it, but it's probably best for Johnathan to do that if he wishes, because Buckley is HIS baby so to speak, and I wouldn't want to be perceived as jumping on any bandwagons or stepping on anyone's toes.
Research etiquette and all that Jazz...

RD

[Jonathan Tye]

thanks gents
fascinating. i find it particularly interesting he was released from jail the weekend tabram was murdered.

Do we have a physical description of him?

Hi there yes we do from a number of records that enable us to provide a description including a later photograph . He was between 5 feet 4 1/2 inches tall and five foot 6 .He had grey eyes , no tattoos or evident scars as such. In his 1903/4 picture he is bearded with grey hair - this does not give any real clues to original hair colouring possibly fair , his complexion is fair . In that later photo he does have a slight droop and swelling in his lip - a stroke ? , drink related or something else - Regards Jonathan
the video above has many of how illustrations we have gathered and the photo record

[The Rookie Detective]

Hi there yes we do from a number of records that enable us to provide a description including a later photograph . He was between 5 feet 4 1/2 inches tall and five foot 6 .He had grey eyes , no tattoos or evident scars as such. In his 1903/4 picture he is bearded with grey hair - this does not give any real clues to original hair colouring possibly fair , his complexion is fair . In that later photo he does have a slight droop and swelling in his lip - a stroke ? , drink related or something else - Regards Jonathan

Johnathan, can I please confirm that alongside that 1903 mugshot of Edward, it actually states that he had a scar across the bridge of his nose and a scar on the right side of his neck?

And also that he was 48 when that photo was taken, but due to the alcohol and beard could pass himself off as a 64 year old?

Many thanks

RD