So......who do you think it was?

[pinkmoon]

stride :

Israel Schwartz said that the man who threw the woman down called out, apparently to the man on the opposite side of the road, "Lipski", and then Schwartz walked away

there were two men

kelly :

Sarah Lewis’ testimony , The man in the black wideawake hat, whom Sarah saw about 2.30 looking up Miller’s Court ‘as if waiting for someone to come out’

and there was Hutchinson who watch the scene for 45 minuets ..

The two man theory has never been examined properly ....we have had the royal conspiracy for years.

[PC Fitzroy-Toye]

I consider him to be an unknown a character that was never a suspect, Ho and as a side thought the idear of two knifes has been mentioned its not a bad idear the neck cuts do seem to favor a long blade like a liston or a well ground butchers knife and something for the internal work more manageable say more akin to a sticking knife maybe? but then a blade of 6-7inc might be just as well for both types of cutting.

[GUT]

G'Day Rainbow

What do you think he meant when he called out Lipski? If we add in Sxhwartz that makes 3.

Isn't it more likely than not that the man Lewis saw was Hutch? If we Add in Botch and A-Man we're up to three again.

Also it seems that there would be no real lack of people around n any event, which has always puzzled me why more people didn't see something, or is the answer simply a wish to avoid bringing oneself to the attention of the police.

[andy1867]

I go to and fro with every book, film or even post I read...
First I was convinced it was Druitt...then obviously Ishenwotsit Kominsky, Kaminsky...maybe Abberline...then Johnny Depp.
The Scwaartz thing made me think it was a pair of predators...Pipe man and the bloke who was accosting Stride..cos I thought that may explain the differences in the wounds suffered by Strides and Eddowes...they were taking it in turns..one was very good at it (If you can use the word good)..the other just an acolyte sorta bloke who says "Can I have a go Jack?"
So Jack lets him have a go at Stride then says..."Not bad lad...but lets nip down Mitre Sq..and I'll show you where you went wrong"
So I dunno, ...its fascinating, its frustrating, theres loads of crap written, there are some brilliant books...The brilliant books , I find are also written by people who actually admit they don't know...the crap oines are penned by folk who think they do...and go to ridiculous lengths to prove it.
Regards
andy

[Cogidubnus]

I want to hear what Tom Wescott thinks...I make no secret in finding him totally exasperating at times, but he really does know his stuff, and the Stride murder is one of his specialities...

How much he will/can release with book(s) pending I don't know but...

All the best

Dave

[John Wheat]

Possibly William Henry Bury. For various reasons. He killed his prostitute wife in a similar manner. He is one of the few known killers out of all the known suspects. He largely matches psych profiles of Jack. He is known to have carried knives. He was phsyically abusive to his wife. His mother's christian name was Mary and her middle name Jane which may explain the overkill on Mary Jane Kelly.

Cheers John

[Cogidubnus]

Hi John

Nice to hear from you again.

So we're talking (latterly at least) Liz Stride and you say:-

Possibly William Henry Bury. For various reasons. He killed his prostitute wife in a similar manner.

I'm sorry mate but Long Liz had her throat cut...the whole point is that Bury did NOT cut his wife's throat...he strangled her with a ligature...

Added to which, Bury's abdominal woundings, obviously undisturbed as opposed to Liz, seem desultory and mildly spiteful by comparison with the most determined abdominal assaults on the other canonical victims...

He is one of the few known killers out of all the known suspects.

True...and this is why I find him interesting...though ultimately unconvincing...

He is known to have carried knives

Along with a large proportion of the male population, to many of whom they'd be merely a tool of the trade.

He was phsyically abusive to his wife.

Again sadly all too common then, (and in some cases now)...

His mother's christian name was Mary and her middle name Jane which may explain the overkill on Mary Jane Kelly.

Did he not love his mummy?

There is of course another factor at play here...whoever authored the Whitechapel Murders (and I word it this way out of respect for Lynn and others) always seemed to have an escape strategy...or enough simple cunning to escape capture...Bury just sat there for a week like a damp twat and then gave himself up? Does this really sound like a cunning JtR...even an exhausted one? In Late Victorian Britain, all he had to do to escape the hangman was catch a train to anywhere, announce he was Mr Smith and start afresh...

No I'm afraid Bury doesn't do it for me...

All the best

Dave

[John Wheat]

To Dave

You make some valid points. I did begin the post with possibly Bury. I accept there are some problems with his candidacy which you have underlined. But for me he remains the best candidate we have for the reasons I mentioned. Obviously the case is not water tight but is much stronger than the cases made for most if not all the other known suspects. You mention Jack the Ripper always having an escape strategy. I would agree with this however I see from Bury's actions in and around his wife's murder a man who is unravelling so to speak. I wonder what Bury's mental state was like at this time. As for Bury not loving his mother I suspect he hated her.

Cheers John

[Cogidubnus]

Hi John

You are, of course, quite correct in wondering whether Bury, if JtR, was coming apart at the time and hence not as capable of his previous levels of thought/behaviour...it's a good point...but I'm still worried about the other inconsistencies with the previous behaviour of the Whitechapel Murderer(s)...

Would Bury really hate his mother though? That much?

All the best

Dave

[John Wheat]

To Dave

I suggest that Bury did hate his mother enough to explain the overkill as regards Mary Jane Kelly. However I do admit you might expect Ellen Bury's murder to have involved more mutilation.

Cheers John

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello Dave. Thanks for that mate.

Cheers.
LC

[Mondegreen]

The Scwaartz thing made me think it was a pair of predators...Pipe man and the bloke who was accosting Stride..cos I thought that may explain the differences in the wounds suffered by Strides and Eddowes...they were taking it in turns..one was very good at it (If you can use the word good)..the other just an acolyte sorta bloke who says "Can I have a go Jack?"
So Jack lets him have a go at Stride then says..."Not bad lad...but lets nip down Mitre Sq..and I'll show you where you went wrong"

(Snipped by me for relevancy.)

This is something I wonder about. If there was more than one killer, what were their motivations for killing? What about their motivations for operating together?

If anyone has any pointers on where I could read about more theories involving more than one perpetrator working together, I'd be grateful. I don't know of many such theories, other than the Royal Conspiracy ones.

[Sally]

This is something I wonder about. If there was more than one killer, what were their motivations for killing? What about their motivations for operating together?

If anyone has any pointers on where I could read about more theories involving more than one perpetrator working together, I'd be grateful. I don't know of many such theories, other than the Royal Conspiracy ones.

Hi Mondegreen - you could do worse than ask Lynn - he has an interesting theory.

[Harry D]

In all likelihood, 'Jack' probably wasn't any of the long list of suspects amassed over the years. Just an ordinary schmuck living in the heart of Whitechapel who blended in the crowd, someone you wouldn't look twice at, perhaps someone who rubbed shoulders and shared a pint with the local bobbies. It was only when he was alone with his victims that his dark side manifested itself.

I'd like to think the Goulston Street graffiti could offer us a little glimpse into Jack's head, but it's so inconclusive as to whether or not it's pro or anti-semitic, or even written by the killer in the first place that it's practically useless.

[John Wheat]

In all likelihood, 'Jack' probably wasn't any of the long list of suspects amassed over the years. Just an ordinary schmuck living in the heart of Whitechapel who blended in the crowd, someone you wouldn't look twice at,

To Harry

Or someone so ordinary that the police questioned him at the time but dismissed because he was so ordinary when they were looking for a top hated toff or some criminal mastermind etc.

Cheers John