Evidence to prove a suspect valid

[Observer]

They're both right. Thats the infuriating part. And the Stride case is the most annoying because of the cachous. They are both right. Not slightly right, but absolutely right. Even the ways of masking or altering the blood evidence would result in her dropping the bag. Well, there might be one way.

Yes, there is another way, the killer placed the cachous in Stride's hand after he cut her throat. Unlikely, but quite possible. Chapman's belongings laid out in order, Eddowes pockets turned, with her thimble lying close to her finger. You get the idea.

[lynn cates]

reaction

Hello Errata. Thanks.

"Because she couldn't remove the pressure from her throat with a closed fist? I mean the whole point of the reaction. . ."

Yes, it is a REACTION. If you could deliberate, of course your hand would open, but the feeling of pressure causes the hand to clench whilst the direction is upwards (for the hands).

Cheers.
LC

[Errata]

Hello Errata. Thanks.

But, given the pressure on the throat, why would the hand open?

Cheers.
LC

Because she couldn't remove the pressure from her throat with a closed fist? I mean the whole point of the reaction is to pry off whatever is obstructing air flow. Pull a scarf or hand or arm away from the throat. Anyone who has ever gotten their scarf caught on something, first thing they do is put an open hand to the throat. And if the other hand does not come up, it opens in readiness to come up. There used to be a video on some stupid site with people getting their scarves caught in revolving doors. Everyone dropped their stuff.

[Errata]

some say that the medical experts claim that she must have been killed lying down based on the blood evidence and some say the medical experts claim she must have been killed standing up based on the cahous still clutched in her hand.

so what does that tell us about the medical experts?

They're both right. Thats the infuriating part. And the Stride case is the most annoying because of the cachous. They are both right. Not slightly right, but absolutely right. Even the ways of masking or altering the blood evidence would result in her dropping the bag. Well, there might be one way.

[Abby Normal]

some say that the medical experts claim that she must have been killed lying down based on the blood evidence and some say the medical experts claim she must have been killed standing up based on the cahous still clutched in her hand.

so what does that tell us about the medical experts?

[Jon Guy]

Could she have spit them out during the attack? Was her mouth full of cachous and is that why he supposedly didn't strangle her?

Did he slice her standing up versus using the ground as a cutting board? Does that explain the shallow depth?

Hi Maybea

I believe one of the medicos accounted for some of the spilt cachous.
But, as the packet was in her hand, and the packet was falling apart, it makes sense that some may have been spilled during the attack.

I don`t think any were in her mouth when she was attacked as I`m sure they would have found some in the mouth or throat when they did the post mortem.

[MayBea]

Her right hand was open and bloodied. ... Cachous were on the ground, they were in the gutter and scattered over the yard.

Could she have spit them out during the attack? Was her mouth full of cachous and is that why he supposedly didn't strangle her?

Did he slice her standing up versus using the ground as a cutting board? Does that explain the shallow depth?

[lynn cates]

open

Hello Errata. Thanks.

But, given the pressure on the throat, why would the hand open?

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

.
Her hands should have been covered in blood, .

Her right hand was open and bloodied.
In fact, globules of blood that could have been arterial spray from rasing her hand to he throat.

.
cachous on the ground at her feet. .

Cachous were on the ground, they were in the gutter and scattered over the yard.

[Errata]

Ah! Okay. As long as you're being rational and objective about it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Rational and objective people gave up this case long ago as unsolvable and unknowable. Since both are clearly true. What happened to Liz Stride that night is as unknowable to us as what occupies the nightstand of my seventh grade math teacher. And your guess on that is as good as mine.

It's not about being irrational. It's about what flavor of irrational are we, and are our flavors of crazy compatible.

[Errata]

Hello Errata. Thanks.

". . . homo sapiens brings their hands up to pull the constriction away. Hard wired reaction. Stride certainly didn't do this. She still had her bag of candy in her hand."

I think she DID bring her hands up. But her left was clutching the cachous. And she never became unconscious--only dead.

Cheers.
LC

Except that people open their hands to do this. I'm not entirely sure why, it is not inherently necessary (thought certainly helpful). Maybe it's a clawing thing? But there was a team in the 60s who worked for the US army who studied this stuff for like a decade in order to understand what they needed to train troops to stop doing. Like not contracting around pain, which we do, but actually lengthens the amount of time we are in pain. And somehow all of that went into building Krav Maga, which is a self defense system that works with natural reaction instead of fighting it. Also stuntmen learn this stuff so they can fake it for the camera.

It's like a whole science. Enough so that they know that most of these impulses start in the hindbrain in the autonomic function section, but it is not autonomic function. One of those wibbly-wobbly areas of the brain.

[Tom_Wescott]

Personally I assumed that Stride WAS a victim of the Ripper until I read more on her throat wound. Which is the quality of a professional hit. Something not seen in his other victims.

Ah! Okay. As long as you're being rational and objective about it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Observer]

Regarding the cachous, the only other solution I can suggest is that Liz Strides hand was still wet from the rain that had fell earlier in the evening and the thin tissue paper in which the cachous were held adhered to her hand. Dr Blackwell might well have shone some light on this suggestion.

"The packet was lodged between the thumb and the first finger, and was partially hidden from view"

[lynn cates]

cachous

Hello Errata. Thanks.

". . . homo sapiens brings their hands up to pull the constriction away. Hard wired reaction. Stride certainly didn't do this. She still had her bag of candy in her hand."

I think she DID bring her hands up. But her left was clutching the cachous. And she never became unconscious--only dead.

Cheers.
LC

[Scott Nelson]

It's so frustrating I could choke somebody.

"No more beer for you."