The Bethnal Green Botherer

[Wickerman]

Hi Scott, my research on Joseph Isaacs left me with the impression he was a small time thief and confidence trickster, a poser, he wanted others to see him as something above his true status.
I don't see him as a killer, and he couldn't have killed Kelly anyway, he was certainly locked up in Barnett on the night of the 8th until the 12th when he appeared in court.

[JeffHamm]

Oh, nice to see a dedicated thread on the BGB. While I'm not suspect focused, I find the BGB to be a fascinating puzzle, for as Wick points out, the descriptions could be all of different people, but there is also the possibility that could all be the same person too (and everything in between of course). It leaves us with another set of random puzzle pieces, which we can try to arrange in different ways, and see where they lead. The idea being, of course, if we find the right arrangement, something will come into focus that signals "correct" - and by "correct" I don't mean "the BGB is JtR", just that we've sorted the puzzle pieces into those that go together and those that do not. Sadly, it is quite likely that signal will be too weak for us to detect, but the fun is in trying, and if nothing else, it can result in discussions about different ways to think about the case, and who knows, from that maybe something useful will emerge.

I wonder if the BGB was listed in the now missing suspect file? If so, it would be very interesting if that were ever to resurface. Anyway, thanks to Herlock for starting this up, and to Wickerman for providing the information he's gathered. Whether or not all those reports are about the same person or not is of course an important question. To the extent they are, or even if a fair few of them are, then whoever the BGB was, he is someone we would like to know more about, as then we can start to assess what connection, if any, he may have to the JtR case. Quite likely none, though, as the police seem to have identified him (from some reports), but it would be nice for us to be able to assess things ourselves.

- Jeff

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Scott, my research on Joseph Isaacs left me with the impression he was a small time thief and confidence trickster, a poser, he wanted others to see him as something above his true status.
I don't see him as a killer, and he couldn't have killed Kelly anyway, he was certainly locked up in Barnett on the night of the 8th until the 12th when he appeared in court.

Wick, will you be getting the Hyams book? Might the ‘awkward gait’ at least suggest that Hyams could have been the BGB? I’ve ordered it as it sounded interesting and it got praise from Paul Begg.

[Wickerman]

Wick, will you be getting the Hyams book? Might the ‘awkward gait’ at least suggest that Hyams could have been the BGB? I’ve ordered it as it sounded interesting and it got praise from Paul Begg.

He seems to be the first suspect I know of, besides Leather Apron, who had that physical impairment, I should look it up. Although, if he had a broken left arm I should think strangling someone would be a difficult task. Another point, one of the mutilations perpetrated on Mary Kelly must have been committed with the left hand, it hardly seems possible to do it with the right hand.

The doctors described that her heart had been removed by the killer reaching up under the rib cage to pull the heart down, as this was done from the left side of the body it is only obvious a left hand was used.
I wonder what the author says about that?
Maybe, all that glitters is not gold.....

[John Wheat]

He seems to be the first suspect I know of, besides Leather Apron, who had that physical impairment, I should look it up. Although, if he had a broken left arm I should think strangling someone would be a difficult task. Another point, one of the mutilations perpetrated on Mary Kelly must have been committed with the left hand, it hardly seems possible to do it with the right hand.

The doctors described that her heart had been removed by the killer reaching up under the rib cage to pull the heart down, as this was done from the left side of the body it is only obvious a left hand was used.
I wonder what the author says about that?
Maybe, all that glitters is not gold.....

Wentworth Bellsmith also walked with an awkward gait. Reportedly a knock kneed gait.

[GBinOz]

The doctors described that her heart had been removed by the killer reaching up under the rib cage to pull the heart down

Hi John,

The autopsy actually stated "The pericardium was open below and the heart absent.".

As you probably know, the pericardium is the fibrous sac that encloses the heart. Removal of the heart from the pericardium requires a surgical procedure which was little known at the time and taught by Virchow. Francis Thompson was a student of Virchow, and this is a major point in Richard Patterson's argument for Thompson being the ripper. My understanding is that Patterson claims that the heart can't be removed from the pericardium by a slash and grab.

I also agree with John Wheat that G. Wentworth Bellsmith was known to walk with an awkward gait.

Cheers, George

[Herlock Sholmes]

He seems to be the first suspect I know of, besides Leather Apron, who had that physical impairment, I should look it up. Although, if he had a broken left arm I should think strangling someone would be a difficult task. Another point, one of the mutilations perpetrated on Mary Kelly must have been committed with the left hand, it hardly seems possible to do it with the right hand.

The doctors described that her heart had been removed by the killer reaching up under the rib cage to pull the heart down, as this was done from the left side of the body it is only obvious a left hand was used.
I wonder what the author says about that?
Maybe, all that glitters is not gold.....

Yes, it will be interesting to see how she deals with this arm injury. It’s the kind of point that, on the surface at least, would make you say “well that counts him out then.”

[Herlock Sholmes]

Wentworth Bellsmith also walked with an awkward gait. Reportedly a knock kneed gait.

The Smith story was one of the first that intrigued me in the case John.

[John Wheat]

The Smith story was one of the first that intrigued me in the case John.

Hi Herlock

Doubt Bellsmith was Jack the Ripper but an interesting character nonetheless.

Cheers John

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock

Doubt Bellsmith was Jack the Ripper but an interesting character nonetheless.

Cheers John

Hi John,

He was. And it’s not impossible that the killer might have had some warped religious motive (in his mind at least….ridding the streets of sin and vice etc)

[The Rookie Detective]

A most excellent thread indeed.

It would appear that we are looking at a stout man around 40 who accosted women and making direct reference to the Ripper.

But we also have a younger man in his twenties seen with 2 women, one of whom was almost certainly Kelly.

The man asks her "Are you coming?"

But there are 2 different women.

It certainly is a scrambled Jig Saw to unravel, but absolutely compelling nonethelsss.

Thank you Herlock for starting this thread and for Jon for being so knowledgeable in this particular area.

Jon, if I recall, there was a report of a man who was subsequently seen with detachable white cuffs and a bag etc...

When we combine the man accosting women on multiple occasions, approaching women together, referring to ladies not liking what's in his bag, mentioning that he's not the Ripper to the women bit without prompt, it all sounds very suspicious.

But...

This all seems very theatrical to me.

It just as though the man is playing a part, putting on a show as it were.

Could this man have been an actor?!

Quite literally.

He reminds me a little of Charles Reeves of WVC fame.

Reeves was an accomplished actor who was known specifically for his character roles, and his uncanny ability to change his age and appearance. His playing age was said to be quite vast range, according to his daughter's own words about her father in her writings/ autobiography

There's also the little known fact that Reeves used to live a stones throw from Bucks Row before having to move back further east due to the construction of the district line at Whitechapel.
His daughter attended the board school in Bucks Row for years.

I am not suggesting this was Reeves, far from it. But the idea that this man had almost a theatrical nature, seems to me that he could have been a fantasist who was playing the part of the Ripper, but who was not actually involved in any of the murders.

That said, the BGB warrants very close scrutiny.


Thanks for this excellent thread.


RD