How well did JtR have to speak English?

[John Wheat]

If Coles and McKenzie were Ripper victims then Bury is eliminated

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

It's unlikely Coles and McKenzie were Ripper victims though.

[Sam Flynn]

Whoever he was, I think it likely that the killer spoke enough English to engage his victims in casual conversation, however brief. Although we can't be 100% sure, it seems that this is what he did with Chapman and Eddowes, and there's no reason to believe that it wasn't part of his regular approach.

[c.d.]

Whoever he was, I think it likely that the killer spoke enough English to engage his victims in casual conversation, however brief.

Exactly. It's not like the parties involved were trying to hammer out the details of the Treaty of Versailles.

c.d.

[jason_c]

I'm not sure that I understand the first part of the second paragraph. Are you saying that we know that we know that Kelly's murderer was adept at English?

Well, we all know that a borderline alcoholic prostitute in desperate financial straits can only go with a client after hearing sweet nothings in her ear.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I'm not sure that I understand the first part of the second paragraph. Are you saying that we know that we know that Kelly's murderer was adept at English?

I'm saying that he must have had a better command of English than Cohen appears to have had in order to conclude a deal with Kelly.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Whoever he was, I think it likely that the killer spoke enough English to engage his victims in casual conversation, however brief.

Exactly. It's not like the parties involved were trying to hammer out the details of the Treaty of Versailles.

c.d.

The Treaty of Versailles was unknown at that time and would be for another three decades.

I suggest trying the Congress of Berlin.

[c.d.]

The Treaty of Versailles was unknown at that time and would be for another three decades.

I suggest trying the Congress of Berlin.

I suggest not taking things so literally.

c.d.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I suggest not taking things so literally.

c.d.

I suggest checking the dates of treaties before posting.

[c.d.]

I suggest checking the dates of treaties before posting.

Note to self -- some posters on the boards lack of a sense of humor and take themselves way too seriously. Plan accordingly before posting.

c.d.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Note to self -- some posters on the boards lack of a sense of humor and take themselves way too seriously. Plan accordingly before posting.

c.d.

I thought you would appreciate the humour in my # 21.

[c.d.]

I thought you would appreciate the humour in my # 21.

There was humor there? Well, I'll be damned. Who knew?

c.d.

[Lewis C]

I'm saying that he must have had a better command of English than Cohen appears to have had in order to conclude a deal with Kelly.

OK, fair enough.

[Lewis C]

Sam Flynn understood what I was asking. Others might not have. I'm not asking whether JtR needed to be a world class orator, but whether there was a minimum level of competence in English that he would have to have had to do what he did, and I mean to do EVERYTHING that he did. One's answer to that might be affected by whether one thinks he wrote the GSG or any of the supposed letters. What I'm ultimately looking for is whether there are any suspects for whom it can be said that he probably was too inept in English to have been JtR.

[FrankO]

Hi Lewis & all,

There was an interesting story in the Lloyd's Weekly News of 30 September:

"Last night a correspondent furnished us with another strange story of an incident occurring early on Thursday morning, near to the scene of the four murders. He states that early in the morning a woman was sitting sleeping on some steps in one of the houses in Dorset-street, when she was awoke by a man who asked her whether she had any bed to go to, or any money to pay for a lodging. She replied that she had not, upon which he said he had money, and then gave her what she thought was two half-sovereigns. She went with him down a passage, and when there he seized her by the throat and tried to strangle her. A scuffle ensued between them, in which she screamed and got away. The next morning she found that what he gave her was two farthings machined round the edge like gold coins. She described him as being a man with a dark moustache, and dressed in a rough frieze blue overcoat."

If this actually happened and it was Jack the Ripper, then we could say he did speak English and, probably, without any accent (seeing that it would have been interesting for a newspaper to add to the story that he spoke in any kind of foreign accent). Whether it was true and the Ripper or not, the story is perfectly in line with what Sam Flynn wrote.

All the best,
Frank

[Chava]

Not well at all. Hold out a wad of cash and point to your Johnson.

c.d.

I think 'wad of cash' might be over-optimistic. More likely 'a couple of pennies'.