Team Jack

[Errata]

Maybe it is just as simple as that's where she went? Down the steps, turn around, let's get this over with.

Maybe, but then he has a choice as to which way to lay he down once he's knocked her out. So with her feet where they were he could have laid her out perpendicular to the stairs in the yard, even with her feet pointed towards the door. But he doesn't. Which seems to make a case he just dropped her and killed her wherever she landed, and she just happened to land in that spot. Which is the murder equivalent of a hole in one.

[Errata]

I have to wonder what use an accomplice would have been in say, Hanbury St.

If an accomplice was out in Hanbury St. how was he supposed to communicate with a killer in the backyard?
Rush down the passage and be caught in the same trap?

With Stride, he obviously needed another accomplice as this one was deaf.

With Eddowes, three exits to the square, and no accomplice?
(was he fired after the near miss in Berner St?)

If the loiterer in Dorset St. was the new accomplice, how was he expected to communicate with the killer inside room 13?
Rush down the passage and draw attention to himself?

Is the accomplice theory really a sound argument?

I'm not talking about an accomplice. Nor a lookout. I'm talking about someone who participated as much in the capture, murder and mutilation as the other guy.

Is it a sound argument? I don't know. On the face of it, yes because we know that there are serial killer teams. Digging deeper, I always felt like this was a private sort of crime, and sharing that with someone seems weird, but then I would think rape is a private sort of crime and people gang up to do that all the time. I think it answers some basic questions. I think it raises new ones.

[moonbegger]

Evening All ,

If an accomplice was out in Hanbury St. how was he supposed to communicate with a killer in the backyard?

According to Long, there was a man and a woman outside 29 ..
" She could not say what the age of the man was, but he looked to be over 40, and appeared to be a little taller "

With Stride, he obviously needed another accomplice as this one was deaf.

But he still did the job .

With Eddowes, three exits to the square, and no accomplice?

There is Mr Levys observation of another couple possibly keeping watch . once again the man is a little taller " he did estimate that the man was about three inches taller than the woman." The same lookout team ?

There really is no solid evidence that either of these women seen at both Hanbury st & Mitre sq were actually the victims of the crime .

If the loiterer in Dorset St. was the new accomplice, how was he expected to communicate with the killer inside room 13?

Finally , what if Kelly was indeed one of the lookouts for the earlier murders ,
and had to be silenced ?

I'll get me coat

moonbegger

[Cogidubnus]

Dodgy accomplice?

I'll get me coat

Is it Astrakhan?

All the best

Dave

[RivkahChaya]

I get the sense, because of the number of Eleanor Glyn-esque stories about MJK, that do seem to go back to her, but are not independently verifiable, and the affectation of the French name, that she would be a poor choice as a conspirator.

For me, that puts to rest the Fenian conspiracies, the Royal conspiracies, where she was the intended victim all along, and also the idea that she was a look-out, or the non-dominant half of a murdering pair, like Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo. I suppose it makes sense that she's the type of partner one would eventually feel the need to silence, but it also means that the hypothetical other partner let her live for quite a long time.

How soon after the double event did Barnett move out? or was it before? No, I'm just kidding. That's more for my novel version.

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Gonna attempt this. Will probably fail.

Maybe, but then he has a choice as to which way to lay he down once he's knocked her out. So with her feet where they were he could have laid her out perpendicular to the stairs in the yard, even with her feet pointed towards the door. But he doesn't. Which seems to make a case he just dropped her and killed her wherever she landed, and she just happened to land in that spot. Which is the murder equivalent of a hole in one.

Okay, the corner would've provided some cover. Also placing him near the door, the point of access into the yard. So hearing anyone approaching would be easiest. Also allowing the door to provide some cover from someone entering the yard. That location is well suited if someone sees you from a window so you can bolt quick. Also, your own body would be blocking other lines of sight.You wouldn't want your back to the door. You wouldn't want to be in the middle of the yard in the open. Whether it was intentional, or intuitive, or random, it was tactically a pretty good spot.

[martin wilson]

The pardon for associates of the murderer was offered on November 10th.
Desperate act of the police at their wits end?
Or did they suspect something else, the details of which have been lost?
All the best.

[lynn cates]

help

Hello Martin. Given the comments surrounding the offer, it looks more like the latter.

Cheers.
LC

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Pardon me

Maybe it was aimed at a witness. A Lawende or Levy. Someone they thought knew the killer and didn't give them up. So help us and you won't get in any trouble. Just a thought.

[lynn cates]

escape

Hello DLDW. Thanks.

Sounds like they thought someone had helped the killer escape?

Cheers.
LC

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo Lynn

Escaped is not the word I'm trying to think of. Aargh! Someone who lied to the police about not knowing who they had seen. Something along those lines. After 13 Millers Ct it may have just been them trying anything to prevent that from happening again. Wait, wasn't the pardon worded as such that as long as you didn't help with the murders themselves then you would be pardoned? Wouldn't that effectively be worthless to a team Jack for either member? I think everyone was just desperate to make it stop and go away. I still contend that, unless caught in the act publicly, the murder's indentity would not have been revealed. Starting to meander. Slumber now.

[Hunter]

How about for the simple reason Bond suggested in his report?... Or is that not convoluted enough?

[lynn cates]

Matthews

Hello DLDW, Cris. Thanks.

I was thinking ONLY of the reply of Matthews in the House of Commons, 23, November:

"In the case of Kelly there were certain circumstances which were wanting in the earlier cases, and which made it more probable that there were other persons who, at any rate after the crime, had assisted the murderer."

(Hansard: 3rd series: Vol 331: p. 16--reproduced in "The Ultimate" p. 349.)

Cheers.
LC

[Hunter]

That's likely a politician's excuse for changing his mind.

[Phil H]

I think you are spot-on, Hunter.

Phil