Lechmere versus Richardson.

[MrBarnett]

I think it was 20 James Street; but I've never been able to see where that was in the street itself. Conceivably right in the middle, since there seem to have been about 40 properties there; but I await a Goad that would clarify...

M.

Yes it was no. 20. They were occupying 6 rooms there in 1887.

[MrBarnett]

Thanks for the aerial photo, Mark. You left out the cats sheds, though. ;-). Still, as they were less than a minute’s walk from the Pinchin Street arch, that Red Cross will suffice for both.

Let’s narrow the area down to show the family’s decades long connection to the ‘Pinchin Street area’.


Here’s a list of the Lechmere/Cross/Forsdyke family’s addresses in the PSA.


1861: 13, Thomas (Pinchin) Street (T/M/C)

1869: 11, Mary Ann Street (T/M/C)

1870: Mary Ann Street (C)

1871: 11, Mary Ann Street (M/C)

1871: 6, Splidts Terrace (J)

1872: 6, Splidts Terrace (M/J)

1874: 54, Splidts Street (M/J)

1875: 12, Mary Ann Street (C)

1876: 12, Mary Ann Street (C)

1876: 23, Pinchin Street (M/J)

1877: 23, Pinchin Street (M/J)

1878: 23, Pinchin Street (M/J)

1879: 23, Pinchin Street (M/J)

1880: 23, Pinchin Street (M/J)

1881: 23, Pinchin Street (M/J)

1882: 23, Pinchin Street (M/J)

1883: 1, Mary Ann Street (M/J)

1884: 1, Mary Ann Street (M/J)

1886: 1, Mary Ann Street (M/J)

1887: 1, Mary Ann Street (M/J)

1888: 1, Mary Ann Street (M/J)

1889: 147, Cable Street (M/J)

1889: 139, Cable Street(?) (M/J)




T: Thomas Cross

M: Maria Lechmere

C: Charles Lechmere

J: Joseph Forsdike

[Mark J D]

nice. but whats his address until june 88-A or B?

I think it was 20 James Street; but I've never been able to see where that was in the street itself. Conceivably right in the middle, since there seem to have been about 40 properties there; but I await a Goad that would clarify...

M.

[MrBarnett]

Whitfield, the home of Edward Bolton Clive. Charles Allen Lechmere’s maternal grandfather, Thomas Roulson, was EBC’s butler for decades. Ma Lechmere was born and brought up on the estate, living there until she married John Allen Lechmere. When EBC died Thomas Roulson, who styled himself a ‘yeoman’, received a very generous bequest from his former master’s estate - by far the highest of any of EBC’s servants. Roulson and his wife died very shortly afterwards and the Clive bequest passed to Ma Lechmere and her two sisters.

What’s the Richardson back story? We know his mother was at pains to impress the court with her respectability.

[Darryl Kenyon]

-- Instead of wasting time trolling me, shouldn't you be looking for information about whether John Richardson had a parent and/or step-parent and/or child living within a couple of minutes' walking distance of Berner Street? Aren't you curious to know? Even if you aren't, surely you're dying to make use of whatever comes of the simple statistical likelihood that someone named as a witness will have had relatives nearer Dutfield's Yard than Lechmere's were?

M.

Who said I thought John Richardson was the ripper ? If Lech went to his Mothers before he killed Liz ? What was he doing then going all the way west to Mitre Square ?
Doveton Street is east of all the murder sites hmm Nowhere central were he would find it easier to backtrack to, if needs be. And answer this, if Annie put up a fight and say scratched Lech on the face so he bled , what was he going to do ? Go home ? Go to work ? The whole idea is fanciful. But someone who perhaps lived alone central to the district , and had no ties that night/morning, or any other night/morning the murders occurred and who hadn't been seen with a dead body just a week earlier might get away with it without too much suspicion

[Abby Normal]

First attempt at annotating a photo of the area. It's a post WW2 photo; but what's a bit of bombing and rebuilding when you've finally caught the Ripper?

I'm sure we'll be getting an equivalent picture for John Richardson very, very soon.

M.

nice. but whats his address until june 88-A or B? and then whats the other letter for?

[Abby Normal]

Judging by the date his kids changed school, mid-June, 1888.

thanks gary
so after his move-it would also include Tabram. Interesting. one could wonder if the move, stress of the move was the trigger that started him off with an anger killing of Tabram. (i know you dont include tabram in the rippers tally but i do, but i also include millwood so im going against myself too in a way-ha!).

[MrBarnett]

interesting point gary
when did he move again?

Judging by the date his kids changed school, mid-June, 1888.

[MrBarnett]

You’ll recall that Drew Gray and his colleague tried to fit James Hardiman up a while back. The wheels came off their theory within weeks of their book being released.

Perhaps the Richardsonians will have more luck.

[Mark J D]

With Lech we’re not talking about an ‘Aunty Mary’ connection, we’re talking about where his mother had lived for around 30 years, where he himself had grown up and where his eldest daughter still lived. Within weeks of him moving away from SGE and using a new route to work through Whitechapel and Spitalfields bodies started piling up in Whitechapel and Spitalfields.

First attempt at annotating a photo of the area. It's a post WW2 photo; but what's a bit of bombing and rebuilding when you've finally caught the Ripper?

I'm sure we'll be getting an equivalent picture for John Richardson very, very soon.

M.

[Abby Normal]

The ball’s in your court, Mike.

What were Richardson’s connections to St Georges?

With Lech we’re not talking about an ‘Aunty Mary’ connection, we’re talking about where his mother had lived for around 30 years, where he himself had grown up and where his eldest daughter still lived.

Within weeks of him moving away from SGE and using a new route to work through Whitechapel and Spitalfields bodies started piling up in Whitechapel and Spitalfields.

interesting point gary
when did he move again?

[rjpalmer]

how is Charles Lechmere a better suspect than John Richardson?

Hi Herlock - The Lechmere theorists make much ado (about nothing?) over the fact that Charlie wore a work apron to a mid-day inquest. But these East End inquests were hardly cuffs & collar events; much of the time they were held down at the pub. Does a person wear a monkey suit to an inquest held at the Bucket of Blood or the King's New Breeches? Why do I get the feeling that had Lechmere dressed in his Sunday suit they would argue the other side of the coin---that the suit was an attempt to put on a false front of dignity or to subtly signal to the inquest that he was a church goer? If people want to be suspicious, they will be suspicious and glean meaning from any incidental detail.

Now imagine if Lechmere's mother was called to the inquest and behaved like John Richardson's mother. First off--and evidently unlike anyone else--Mrs. Richardson put on a great show of kissing the bible on being sworn in:



Mrs. Richardson then tosses in an entirely irrelevant and gratuitous reference to having held a prayer meeting on Friday night!




God Gawd. Let's view this with the jaundiced eye of suspicion, shall we? What a phony act! All as if to say, "see how pious we Richardsons are?"

And, of course, Mrs. Richardson took the stand just before her son John was due to explain why he was in the backyard early in the morning with a knife and a dead unfortunate.

Using the standard methodology, we can draw one of two conclusions:

1) Mrs. Richardson was a phony who was putting on a front of religiosity to diminish any suspicions against her son.

2) Mrs Richardson was a religious fanatic who taught he son to detest the 'whores' of Whitechapel and Spitalfields. Indeed, while this might be entirely wrong, it seems more plausible than the similar accusations leveled at Maria Lechmere, who was not known to have spent her Friday nights giving prayer meetings.


By the way, the ELO made a point of saying that Mrs. Richardson was dressed far more decently and respectably than others in her situation. Not too far from the 'very decent' description by Booth--apparently of the Lechmere family. Yet John Richardson's clothes were specifically noted as being worn. Another example of the 'umble act, or simply reflective of life in the East End where people worked on the same day that they attended an inquest?

[John Wheat]

So, even though I think don’t think that Richardson was the ripper, I’d say that he has more going for him as a suspect that Lechmere. So why are some so enthusiastic about him? Im not saying that he shouldn’t have been looked at but I look at everything that’s proposed against him and it doesn’t raise an eyebrow. It’s the confidence in him as a suspect that I can’t understand.

I'm of the same opinion as regards Lechmere Herlock.

[MrBarnett]

Personally I think that this geographical stuff is entirely irrelevant and a red herring. He was a local, familiar with the area like thousands of others. So what? How many others tangentially involved in this case, on further research, would be found to have an Auntie Mary that lived a few streets away from Berner Street and a childhood best mate who live near Mitre Square or that he used to work not far from Dorset Street? Most of these are undiscoverable facts of course but I’d say that it would be a safe bet that these kinds of ‘connections’ could be made.

The ball’s in your court, Mike.

What were Richardson’s connections to St Georges?

With Lech we’re not talking about an ‘Aunty Mary’ connection, we’re talking about where his mother had lived for around 30 years, where he himself had grown up and where his eldest daughter still lived.

Within weeks of him moving away from SGE and using a new route to work through Whitechapel and Spitalfields bodies started piling up in Whitechapel and Spitalfields.

[Herlock Sholmes]

So, even though I think don’t think that Richardson was the ripper, I’d say that he has more going for him as a suspect that Lechmere. So why are some so enthusiastic about him? Im not saying that he shouldn’t have been looked at but I look at everything that’s proposed against him and it doesn’t raise an eyebrow. It’s the confidence in him as a suspect that I can’t understand.