OK whos your favored suspect/s and why?

[Sunny Delight]

I often wonder if we are missing a trick with the Martha Tabram murder. If, as many do, we believe she was a victim of JTR then is it possible that the soldier who was with Tabram that night is our killer? At 5:30am in George Yard buildings Dr Kileen examined the body and determined she had been dead for 'about 3 hours' so roughly 2:30am.

At approximately 2am PC Barrett spoke with a soldier loitering near the North entrance of George Yard. When approached he said he was 'waiting for his mate who had gone off with a girl'. Now we have no way of knowing if this girl/woman was Tabram but it is very interesting that this happened so close to the presumed TOD(not a perfect estimation but the mitigating factors present in other cases are not as pronounced- I.e temperature, extent of mutiliation so might be close enough). We have some evidence Tabram was in the company of soldiers prior to this encounter albeit a few hours had passed. Any thoughts?

[Aethelwulf]

I often wonder if we are missing a trick with the Martha Tabram murder. If, as many do, we believe she was a victim of JTR then is it possible that the soldier who was with Tabram that night is our killer? At 5:30am in George Yard buildings Dr Kileen examined the body and determined she had been dead for 'about 3 hours' so roughly 2:30am.

At approximately 2am PC Barrett spoke with a soldier loitering near the North entrance of George Yard. When approached he said he was 'waiting for his mate who had gone off with a girl'. Now we have no way of knowing if this girl/woman was Tabram but it is very interesting that this happened so close to the presumed TOD(not a perfect estimation but the mitigating factors present in other cases are not as pronounced- I.e temperature, extent of mutiliation so might be close enough). We have some evidence Tabram was in the company of soldiers prior to this encounter albeit a few hours had passed. Any thoughts?

Something I asked before but can't remember the answer - were these two definitely soldiers (were they in uniform)? It would be very easy to just 'i'm a sergeant' (or whatever rank) (in civvies) to impress a girl.

[Abby Normal]

Something I asked before but can't remember the answer - were these two definitely soldiers (were they in uniform)? It would be very easy to just 'i'm a sergeant' (or whatever rank) (in civvies) to impress a girl.

yes both pearly poll and the PC said they were in uniform. But i guess its possibly that they still werent soldiers, just dressing up as one.

[Indian Harry]

Wouldn't want to meet that cat!

I was envisioning someone with a fledgling cats' meats business, or someone that sells bits of meat to one.... but you are right, feeding their own cat is a possibility.

[Aethelwulf]

I was envisioning someone with a fledgling cats' meats business, or someone that sells bits of meat to one.... but you are right, feeding their own cat is a possibility.

You weren't joking then?

[Pcdunn]

You weren't joking then?

It's true that some Victorians made a living by buying parts of butchered animals (organs, offal, etc) to cook up and sell as food for cats and dogs.
You'll hear more about this on the Charles Lechmere pages.

[Indian Harry]

You weren't joking then?

No. To me taking organs as some weird kind of fetish or to sell as scientific specimens isn't any more probable then using them in cats' meats... so I think it's a reasonable theory. It was the reoccurence of cats' meats in the ripper 'material' that got me thinking this way.

[Damaso Marte]

I often wonder if we are missing a trick with the Martha Tabram murder. If, as many do, we believe she was a victim of JTR then is it possible that the soldier who was with Tabram that night is our killer? At 5:30am in George Yard buildings Dr Kileen examined the body and determined she had been dead for 'about 3 hours' so roughly 2:30am.

At approximately 2am PC Barrett spoke with a soldier loitering near the North entrance of George Yard. When approached he said he was 'waiting for his mate who had gone off with a girl'. Now we have no way of knowing if this girl/woman was Tabram but it is very interesting that this happened so close to the presumed TOD(not a perfect estimation but the mitigating factors present in other cases are not as pronounced- I.e temperature, extent of mutiliation so might be close enough). We have some evidence Tabram was in the company of soldiers prior to this encounter albeit a few hours had passed. Any thoughts?

I'm very open to the idea of Tabram as a Ripper victim, but I think that soldier is about as real as Astrakhan Man.

[Aethelwulf]

It's true that some Victorians made a living by buying parts of butchered animals (organs, offal, etc) to cook up and sell as food for cats and dogs.
You'll hear more about this on the Charles Lechmere pages.

Yes I know all that. Call me narrow minded, but for some reason I'm having a bit of difficulty with the idea of JTR killing women for cats' meat purposes.

[Pcdunn]

Yes I know all that. Call me narrow minded, but for some reason I'm having a bit of difficulty with the idea of JTR killing women for cats' meat purposes.

Ah, I see. Fair enough. It is a bit too Hammer House horror film-like.

[Sunny Delight]

I'm very open to the idea of Tabram as a Ripper victim, but I think that soldier is about as real as Astrakhan Man.

Funny enough I actually see Astrakhan man as the prime suspect. I was throwing the soldier idea out there for discussion really. For me though AK man is the most likely to be JTR. The one issue I often have with those who dismiss it is a) they can never give an adequate alternative to the man see by Sarah Lewis at the spot Hutchinson said he was, at the time he said he was and doing what he said he was and b) AK man's attire although very smart was not as outrageous as many proclaim. Have a look at Booth's map in 1889. There are many termed 'middle class- well to do'. The entire immediate area around Dorset Street on Commercial Street was almost entirely of this class. It may have been unusual that a man in this attire associate with a prostitute- it would not necessarily be the case that a man in such attire could never have been seen in the area.

I think one of the main reasons for JTR's inactivity before striking in July 1889 was the suggestion in the Hutchinson newspaper interview that he was likely seen at Petticoat Lane market on the Sunday after Mary Kelly's death and that Hutchinson stated he could swear to him anywhere. This must have been extremely worrying. Say for instance JTR had been at the market on the Sunday and knew he had been spotted. Of course there were other reasons behind the inactivity in my opinion- increased Police patrols, insatiable fantasies subdued due to the ferocity of Mary Kelly's death but I see Hutchinsons emergence as part of that.

[Fernglas]

What is this cast iron proof the Ripper had medical skill?

I´ve been lurking in this forum for many years, but to this day it amazes me how willfully blind ripperlogists can be to some of the still existing evidence!
Let us take a look at Mitre Square and the circumstances of the murder there. We have a victim prone on the ground (not on a surgery table), in near total darkness (there were no handheld strong lights at the time) with a murderer hellbent on getting out a kidney before a witness or the bobby on his beat comes in. There was significant pressure on Jack to be really quick and he was. Despite the abomiable circumstances he extracted the kidney in 3-5 minutes and NOT slashing about, BUT in a way recognisable and retracable by a doctor! And more, despite the victim dead, the Ripper circumvented the navel, something done with living persons for several reasons, none of which applies to the dead. He went into Kathy´s body the way a doctor or medic of this era did, Dr. Phillips could retrace the Ripper´s steps and knew them!
To show the Ripper had knowledge very rare in 1888, a little history on kidney surgery: The first planned and successful extraction of a kidney from a living patient was done by Heidelberg surgeon Gustav Simon on 2nd August 1869! The first fully successful fixing of a wandering kidney was in 1881 by surgeon Eugen Hahn. This was a young area of medical expertise. The very helpful discovery of the Röntgen rays by Wilhelm Röntgen came only in 1895. (The first real Röntgen picture was a hand of his wife, this picture can be seen in the Röntgen Museum in Würzburg. If you are in Würzburg someday, you should take a look)

The Ripper went into Eddowes body like a surgeon or medic of his time, the newer kidney surgery options by German surgeons Casper, Israel and Richter were either brand new or still developed. Jack circumvented the navel, thoroughly fixed the sigmoid area of the intestines into the rectum, that is something NOT done by butchers or interested amateurs. That was surgeons knowledge in 1888!
And it should be mentioned that going by the post mortem of Dr. Phillips the mutilations postdate(!) the kidney extraction. It is a coin toss if the Ripper could not surpress his deranged impulses any longer or if it was a deliberate attempt to obfuscate his medical skills with "shoddy work" and mutilation.

In my honest opinion, going by the way he did the kidney extraction and under what circumstances he did it, the Ripper was either a doctor, medic or maybe part of a mortuary staff.

[DJA]

Perhaps all three.

[John Wheat]

I´ve been lurking in this forum for many years, but to this day it amazes me how willfully blind ripperlogists can be to some of the still existing evidence!
Let us take a look at Mitre Square and the circumstances of the murder there. We have a victim prone on the ground (not on a surgery table), in near total darkness (there were no handheld strong lights at the time) with a murderer hellbent on getting out a kidney before a witness or the bobby on his beat comes in. There was significant pressure on Jack to be really quick and he was. Despite the abomiable circumstances he extracted the kidney in 3-5 minutes and NOT slashing about, BUT in a way recognisable and retracable by a doctor! And more, despite the victim dead, the Ripper circumvented the navel, something done with living persons for several reasons, none of which applies to the dead. He went into Kathy´s body the way a doctor or medic of this era did, Dr. Phillips could retrace the Ripper´s steps and knew them!
To show the Ripper had knowledge very rare in 1888, a little history on kidney surgery: The first planned and successful extraction of a kidney from a living patient was done by Heidelberg surgeon Gustav Simon on 2nd August 1869! The first fully successful fixing of a wandering kidney was in 1881 by surgeon Eugen Hahn. This was a young area of medical expertise. The very helpful discovery of the Röntgen rays by Wilhelm Röntgen came only in 1895. (The first real Röntgen picture was a hand of his wife, this picture can be seen in the Röntgen Museum in Würzburg. If you are in Würzburg someday, you should take a look)

The Ripper went into Eddowes body like a surgeon or medic of his time, the newer kidney surgery options by German surgeons Casper, Israel and Richter were either brand new or still developed. Jack circumvented the navel, thoroughly fixed the sigmoid area of the intestines into the rectum, that is something NOT done by butchers or interested amateurs. That was surgeons knowledge in 1888!
And it should be mentioned that going by the post mortem of Dr. Phillips the mutilations postdate(!) the kidney extraction. It is a coin toss if the Ripper could not surpress his deranged impulses any longer or if it was a deliberate attempt to obfuscate his medical skills with "shoddy work" and mutilation.

In my honest opinion, going by the way he did the kidney extraction and under what circumstances he did it, the Ripper was either a doctor, medic or maybe part of a mortuary staff.

This is not cast iron proof. It's your opinion.

[Fernglas]

This is not cast iron proof. It's your opinion.

It is my opinion on the topic from where the Ripper had his medical knowledge, but that he had medical skill is cast Iron by the simple facts of what happened at Mitre Square! Show us the "interested amateur" able to successfully extract a kidney on his knees, in near darkness, in 3-5 minutes, done not leaving a victim looking like a bomb had gone off, but done in steps a 1888 doctor could recognise and would have done similarly himself!

And once again: The mutilations postdate the successful kidney extraction and knowing not to cut through the navel or fixing the sigmoid area in the rectum was surgeon´s knowledge in 1888, even today few persons outside the medical occupations know this.